1. What do you think Dylan's motivation was for the creative writing project that got the attention of his teacher? The book indicates that the teacher did all she could regarding this writing project - do you agree? Do you think the counselor should have picked up on the cues in this paper?
2. Do you think Brian Rohrbough's opinions regarding the school were justified? Were his feelings part of his healing process - that is, did he need to place the blame somewhere?
3. Did the Federal Judge's decision to hand over materials to be secured in a Federal courthouse allow the full story of Columbine to be told? Do you think that the materials which the judge ordered secured would have been made public if he hadn't done this?
4. In 'Ready To Be Done' Cullen begins wrapping up the aftereffects of the killings. What events (e.g., the sealing of the parents depositions, Michael Moore's conclusions, Mr. D's divorce) were predictable and which came as a surprise to you?
5. Since we now know that school killers are likely to reveal their plans before an attack do you think that if someone revealed the sorts of things Eric did to Chris Morris, Zack and Nate would be caught now? Or would comments like this still be dismissed?
6. What do the discoveries regarding the Jeffco cover up lead you to believe regarding the investigation? Should Jeffco officials have turned their investigation over to another agency (such as the FBI) early on? Do you feel that justice was done with regards to the cover up?
7. In the (over) 10 years since Columbine there have been more than 80 school shootings. What lessons have been learned? Do you think this type of violence will ever be stopped?
8. What did you learn from the chapter 'Quiet'? Was this a good place in the book to place the chronology of events from the killer's perspective?
9. In 'At The Broken Places' Patrick Ireland says "The shootings were an event that occurred. But it did not define me as a person. It did not set the tone for the rest of my life." How do the vignettes about the school, the memorial and the survivors confirm or dispute this statement?
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5. Columbine really ended the myth of school safety. While there had been other school shootings, this particular event rampaged into the public sphere. In response, harsh Zero-Tolerance policies were enacted to catch ANY kind of possible threat, even those made in jest. In todays fear-induced climate, these kinds of remarks would be severely acted upon. The lesson inspired a harsh response. No longer could students believe that there compatriots were simply "joking."
ReplyDelete6. Jeffco really failed with the data management process over Columbine. Part of the failure rests on the Sherrif's incredible ineptitude and the lack of a proper response to a crisis of this magnitude. I am a pro-leaker, so I disapprove of the covering up of information that was done. The cover up left families in the dark about the deaths or near-deaths of their children, and spawned many false rumors and myths. Due to the size of the crisis, the investigation should have been turned over to the FBI, who has had experience with large crisis like this incident.
8. The chapter was very freaky, as it showed a step by step walkthrough of the killings from the killer's perspective. While Cullen does make many inferences (though well thought out), he keeps the facts straight. The part about the suicide was very chilling as it described in great detail the way the two died. In many ways, Cullen downplays the killer's intensity by using phrases such as "This was the last student that was killed by the two" or phrases along that line.
9. I thought it was truly heartwarming to hear the story of Valeen Schnurr, whose "ending" in the book truly defined Patrick's statement. Valeen struggled through the initial stages but eventually built a happy life for herself. It shows that the most of the survivors and the school were ready to move on, with the students not remembering vaguely and not focusing on the Columbine shootings. However, I feel as if the ones most affected were relatives of the victims, who never overcame the anger after their loved one's deaths.
7. The greatest lesson learnt was the need for action immediately at the scene of the incident. The Platte Canyon High School shooting was a break from the Columbine response, with this reaction focusing on an immediate neutralization of the shooter. The aftermath left one hostage dead and 5 surviving. While its debatable what would have been the best option, it is certainly preferable to the alternative, with all hostages dead. In the end, the school shooting response will always be flawed because of the lack of a magic bullet. There will always be better possible responses. This type of violence will always occur due to the factors of instability almost always occurring. When the factors are just right, there is a school shooting. Due to the amount of school shootings that have occurred, I am not sure if this violence can be prevented. The situations depend on each location and personnel beforehand, with a knowledgable and trained counselor or staff member being the difference between safety and a shooting.
1. I feel that the motivation to this was Dylan's mental state of depression. He was obviously emotionally unstable and this just confirmed it. The teacher really did do all she could, in my opinion. I just feel no one really took it as seriously as it should have been taken. SOMEONE should have definitely picked up on all of the cues in this paper. No one picked up on it and in the end, it turned out very badly.
ReplyDelete5. Columbine shook the public much more than other school shootings because of all the hints that were right under everyone's noses. No one could be joking about anything anymore and security was raised significantly in all of the schools. Columbine was a turning point to everyone's view on tolerance.
6. The way Jeffco handled the case really pissed me off honestly. They were very unorganized and they definitely should have handed the case over to someone else higher in rank and authority. No one knew what was going on and everything was in complete chaos!
7. I feel that the lessons learned would be to be more aware of what is going on in the student body. I do not think the violent minds will never be stopped but the violent actions can be. Authorities need to be more on top of things and if someone shows any signs of any violence, they should be checked out. Dylan and Eric showed many signs and no one picked up on the signs.
8. This chapter was very, very creepy. It was really chilling for me to be able to read into the reader's heads and know what they were thinking and their viewpoint. The part that affected me most was their thoughts and the fact that they had no remorse.It really bothered me.
1. I think he just wanted an outlet for all that was going on. Cullen’s sources state that it is normal for serial killers or psychopaths to want to leak out information, and this was Dylan’s way of doing that. Secrets are hard to keep sometimes, especially one of such magnitudes, which were being fed with all that anger. Then again, I remember reading that the result of him writing the piece was him finally deciding to go through with the plan or not. Maybe this was his way of trying to leak it out to someone to stop him.
ReplyDelete5. I think it would be taken a bit more serious nowadays, since the attacks at Columbine and especially Virginia Tech are so fresh in people’s minds. It seems that almost anything violent is taken more serious today, whether it is cyber bulling, violent conversation, or even little threats between kids. On the other hand, it is possible that comments such as Eric’s would still be dismissed because some people still think, “Oh, he’s just a teenager. He doesn’t really mean it. He won’t go through with it.”
7. How to handle the situation better. For instance, how the police handled entering the school and stopping the attack. Even earlier in the book, Cullen included the changes they made to their strategies on getting in and “neutralizing the target or killing them.” I highly doubt that this form of violence will ever cease. It’s one of the easiest ways to perform a violent act because guns are easy to get and there are many people in this one location, like a school. There will always be that one student to bring a gun to school.
8. I never knew that psychopaths get bored with their killing so there comes to pass a “quiet” time. I just randomly found that as an interesting little fact. It’d a little disturbing as well, that he got bored with murder. I thought it was a good place to put it all together. It seemed to me that Cullen was describing the actual scene in bits and pieces throughout the book, some matching with the killer’s perspective and others with the witness’s. Here he confirms the entire process rather quickly to put all the pieces together and clarify what exactly happened.
9. Patrick is saying that it happened. There’s nothing else he can do about it but move on with his life. It didn’t change him or his future drastically with negative. He found a field he loved, and found the love of his life to where if he never got shot then he wouldn’t have ever met her. Many of the other survivor’s stories are saying the same thing: We’ve moved and things are happening for the better. Take for instance Frank. He got a divorce, but later became engaged again and “remains engaged.” Yes, there are some that show that not all of them got happy endings like Patrick, like the girl who moved to the country and went crazy. I think that all the happy ending ones stood out more, giving the audience an up lifting feeling and a sense of closure.
1) I beleive that Dylan's paper conveyed his depression and that he was mentally ill. In a way, he was asking for help, as he most likely knew that the teacher would feel disturbed when reading it. The teacher not completely overlooking the paper was smart, and majority of people would have put together one paper as a sign that he was going to become a killer.
ReplyDelete9) Most people affected by the shooting overcame many obstacles, but also many people did not make as many achievements, due to Columbine. Including, the mom that commit suicide, not specifically because of Columbine, but essentially Columbine increased her depression and stress. Overall, Most survivors did not let Columbine completely overcome them, but some survivors achieved more success than others.
5) Since school shootings and violence has increased after Columbine, People are more aware of significant depression and mentally-ill symptoms, as many people have made great efforts to make people further aware.
6) I believe that Jeffco police are more responsible for the attack then many people, that recieved most of the blame, due to, their biggest mistake overlooking the death threat made by the brown family only a little while before the shooting, also made after Eric had previously been arrested. FBI should have taken up the investigation because it appeared that Jeffco had a difficult time handling the case.
7) Many lessons have been learned through Columbine, including their largest mistake, taking a long time before entering the high school while hundreds of students were inside. As school shootings have increased, people are definately becoming more aware of school shootings, depression, and suicide. Even now, many people in schools perform school drills and include depression and suicide in school courses. I don't think this violence will ever stop, but I think that things will improve.
Shelby#9 - I agree that stories such as Patrick Ireland's did provide a lot of closure, and stood out more than most. Many people were not as lucky as Patrick Ireland though. I believe that many people were further affected by Columbine, as it completely changed their life, making it not just an event.
ReplyDelete#1 - Thats a good point, since Dylan was dealing with depression and was extremelty suicidal, it is extremely difficult for a normal person not to show any warnings, unless their like Eric, a psycopath, that has generally no emotions.
Elana #5 - Columbine was a large turning point for school's tolerance, as it led to an increase in school violence, where people even tried to imitate
1. I think Dylan was trying to leak information so that somebody could stop him. I think it was cry for a help. I think the teacher did an excellent job; she did exactly what she was supposed to do. She contacted parents and counselors. If anybody were at fault, I would say it was the counselor who should have looked into it more. However, at the end of the day, I don't really think you could blame anybody for what happened.
ReplyDelete3. At that point, too many rumors had already circulated. No matter what happened, people would have believed what they wanted to. The only good that came out of the judge's decision was probably a bit more closure for the families.
5. I think comments like that would still be dismissed. People just shrug nonsense like that off. It's hard to imagine that somebody is actually capable of harming so many innocent people, so you don't pay any attention to what the budding psychopaths say. You never take kids like that seriously.
6. Justice definitely wasn't served, but that didn't come as a shock to me. Government officials love covering for each other, and they basically got a slap on the wrist. Who cares that the public didn't trust them? They aren't serving time for destroying important evidence. The officers should have turned over that information at once, and knowing that all of the files mysteriously disappeared, makes me so angry. I can't imagine how the actual victims felt. This just reinforces "Cops are crooked" sentiment in America.
9. You can't really control what the people around you are going to do. People can try to make schools as safe as possible, but there are always ways around the rules. Violence is just a part of life, and I don't think we can ever truly avoid it or eradicate it. School shootings will probably never stop.
#5: Before I read the book, I would not have paid a second thought to some of the comments that Dylan made. The contrast of his beliefs of superiority and his seemingly endless despair due to unrequited love would probably cause me to advise him to seek some sort of counseling because he obviously needed help, but I would not have perceived him as a danger. I feel as though Eric’s threats were much more specific and goal-oriented. Although his ideas were so grandeur that one could consider them unattainable, the fact that his plans involved mass murder would have been enough to send off a red flag in my head.
ReplyDelete#6: I do not think the whole Jeffco police force is collectively responsible for the fiascos surrounding the case. The head of the Jeffco police force (I forgot his name) is ultimately responsible for lying about evidence, spreading false information, and directing his subordinates to follow suit. So ideally, they should have just fired the head of the Jeffco police force. However, turning over the case to the FBI is a completely suitable alternative; I imagine that it would have operated ethically at the very least for the sole reason of maintaining their professionalism. Jeffco did not achieve any sort of justice by covering up facts behind the shooting.
#7: I have learned that the adolescent mind is a volatile and unpredictable. Both and Eric and Dylan were both psychologically unstable, yes, but as Columbine reveals, the failure of the plan was due to poor planning. The frontal lobe of the brain is thought to govern planning and decision-making, and studies show that this part of the brain is still developing in teenage brains. With that being said, knowing that teenagers, including myself, are physically unequipped to make smart long-term decision has made me more conscientious about how I make day-to-day choices and what impact they will have on my life. The impulsivity of the adolescent brain is not something that can be avoided; there will always be teens that act on their passing fancies. Knowing this, I doubt that school shootings will ever completely disappear from society unless measures are taken to prevent teens from having guns…but I also doubt that will happen anytime soon.
#9: The memorial services, vignettes, and survivors’ stories for the shooting serve as recognition of the events that transpired. In a way, they immortalize Columbine because these symbols will always remind people of what happened on April 20th, 1999. However, remembering is not the same as re-living. Patrick’s statement shows that Columbine is a part of history that he recognizes, but it is not an event that will completely define him or the Littleton community.
#3: The judge’s decision to adopt a policy of full disclosure came a little too late. At this point, so many other myths had been bombarded into the public’s head through media speculation that people simply believed whatever they chose. The materials which the judge ordered to become public would have eventually become public because the subordinate Jeffco police officers wanted to tell the truth the whole time, but they didn’t under the orders of their superiors. I’d like to believe that some rebellious officer would either come clean early, or years later when the officer was unemployed, he or she would be featured in a scandalous Columbine expose on 20/20.
1. I think that Dylan probably wrote the story as a sort of pep talk to himself, to make himself believe that he could and would do the killing with Eric. In the story, the man’s motivations are amusement, vengeance, and to prove he could: clearly, Dylan is basing the character off of himself and the plans he is going to put into action. I think that the teacher handled the situation well; she contacted his parents and guidance counselor. If she had pursued the issue more, it most likely would not have made Dylan confess his plans for mass murder and give up on them. The counselor maybe should have picked up on more from the paper, but he probably saw things like this more often than we think, and those kids didn’t end up shooting down their classmates. Sometimes, violence in writing isn’t just an expression of violence, it can be an expression of something else, it can be a storytelling tool. That’s what they thought it was, and that’s what some people still think it was.
ReplyDelete4. It surprised me that Mr. D couldn’t let his family in and deal with his PTSD. After all of his work with the students, helping them feel better about the shooting, you would think he’d be able to understand the importance of not shutting out those close to you. It didn’t surprise me at all that Fuselier “mellowed out” a lot after he retired. Cullen says in his Acknowledgements that “Ten years on a massacre can be tough on the soul,” and it seemed like Fuselier’s job was basically ten years on a massacre, except all the time. I was glad to hear that he made it through unscathed and managed to keep doing what he loved. Patrick’s story pretty much made the book worthwhile for me. I was, at once, surprised and unsurprised by how successful he was.
5. Chris, Zack, and Nate didn’t want to believe what Eric was saying to them; this is completely understandable. If one of my friends came up to me and jokingly asked if I wanted to help them out with a mass murder, I would definitely be bothered by it but mentally stick with the idea that they were joking so as to keep my own peace of mind. I think comments like this are still dismissed, but sometimes people have that gut feeling that makes them pursue it further and turn in prospective criminals. Especially now that school and other shootings have become much more widespread, we’re all more wary, but not to such a degree that gun jokes are taboo.
7. Well, obviously the lesson has been learned that police should actually do something about shootings. I feel like Columbine demonstrated the fact that police and SWAT teams just had no idea what to do in such situations, and when it cost the life of Dave Sanders, people realized that something needed to change. I don’t think that things like this will ever go away. Mental disorders don’t go away; violence doesn’t go away. But we are able to change in order to be able to cope with it and deal with it better, and sometimes prevent it before it happens. Also, school staff have become very adamant about the fact that when you have a problem, you should talk to a “trusted adult.” It may sound lame, but that change in attitude may have already saved some lives.
8. From “Quiet,” I finally got a full understanding of what happened, start to finish, in the shooting where Eric and Dylan were concerned. At the beginning of the book, Cullen summarized it, but he also included stories of what was happening outside of the school; I thought it was illuminating to see only Eric and Dylan’s actions, and to learn of how they had killed themselves. I thought that this chapter was placed extremely well. All of the book’s story lines came together, and it was a good choice to go back over the events of the shooting after many, many chapters concerning the buildup and the aftermath. It made Patrick’s survival more amazing, and the deaths of the thirteen more tragic; it made Eric and Dylan’s suicides take on a new meaning.
#5: Ever since what happened at Columbine, more people pay attention to what others say, in regards to threats. It was so serious, that they put into place the Zero Tolerance policies, which are still in place today; those policies alone show that if someone heard some of the things that Dylan and Eric said, they would have told. This in the end would prevent the school shooting from happening.
ReplyDelete#6: The cover ups made by the Jeffco officials really made me mad. The investigation definitely should have been handed over to the FBI almost immediately; after all, they were way better equipped to handle the situation than the Jeffco officials.
#7: In the years since Columbine, people have learned to take threats more seriously and police have learned how to handle that type of situation. More people, obviously, need to learn how to take threats more serous though, since there have been 80 school shootings since Columbine and the majority of school shooters tell someone about their plans before they commit the crime. This type of violence can never be completely annihilated since there will always be crazy people in the world, and people who do not recognize the warning signs.
#8: This chapter was very bone-chilling, yet very interesting. It was since, although scary to "see" inside the murders' head; to know what they were thinking and feeling. I liked the location of this chapter in the book and felt that Cullen did an excellent job writing it.
#9: I feel that even if the shooting did not define Patrick as a person, it did set the tone for the rest of his life whether he realizes it or not, if not for the shooting, Patrick would have went to another school, for another profession, and therefore would not have met the love of his life. The same is true for Frank, because of the shooting; he got a divorce, and now remains engaged. Yes, the survivors may have moved on, but everything that a person goes through makes them into the person that they are.
Dhruv #8:The suicides were very chilling. I also felt that Cullen downplayed the killers' intensity.
ReplyDeleteElana#8:The part that affeted me the most, like you, was the fact that they had no remorse. They acted as if they were killing ants, instead of human beings.
Shelby F.#1:Now that you mention it, it does seem as if Dylan wrote that story to get his secret out. Maybe, subconsciously he was calling out for help; hoping that someone would stop him and get him the help he so desperately needed.
Alexandra#1:I agree with you; the teacher did all that was expected of her. The counselor should have looked further into the situation, but in the end, even the counselor can not be blamed.
Alexandra#5:Onc eagain, I agree. Even though people are told to take threats more seriously, I do not feel that this happens, especially since most killers mention their plans to friends. Most kids, would not take a threat from their friends' seriously, they would just shrug it off.
Megan #4. Yes, it's logical to think he would follow his own advice and not shut down like how the teenagers would, but not everything is as easy as it seems. The phrase, "easier said than done" popped into my head. So I was expecting some sort of struggle with in him. It's sad how he was a little hypocritical here.
ReplyDeleteRichie #7 Wow! I never knew that about the brain. Cool little fun fact you put in there, Richie. With that kind of logic, I agree. Teenager's brains are still developing and growing, so most of the time, at least form what I've observed, they don't think everything through all the way.
Elana #1 Yeah, I, too, think the teacher did all she could to figure out what was the meaning behind this disturbing paper. Uh! It's so frustrating sometimes, the way we know what's going on and once Dylan leaked this out no one noticed enough to do something about it. The signs are right there, nearly blinking in neon lights, and no one is catching on but us, whom Cullen has informed already the situations at hand. I guess that's irony for you.
Megan #8 I agree that the suicides took a new meaning. With Cullen placing the attack straight forward, in only Eric and Dylan's perspective, all the way up to their deaths, it created a new sense of closure. For instance, like the book's tension and overall dark feeling that the boys radiated died along with them. Once it was stated that they were dead and I kept reading about the effects afterward, I felt this up lifting sense of closure, like "it's okay now, this nightmare made real is finally over."
Alexandra #6 I wasn't surprised either at the cover ups. It just seems like such a government cliche nowadays. When I read that the files went missing I thought in angry frustration, "Of course they did."
1. I believe that Dylan was trying to tell people about the plans. Plain and simple. He was never planning on actually carrying it out; he was planning on committing suicide. I don’t think that Dylan wanted it to even happen. He tried to warn his teacher with the creative writing piece, but she neglected to take any real course of action. Yes she contacted who she thought could help, but what did she think would happen through doing this? She just did not follow through with her plans. I do not think that the counselor did anything, and he definitely should have picked up on Dylan’s subtle, yet present hints at what was to come.
ReplyDelete3. Factually, the story of Columbine would be told. However, the real “story of Columbine” would involve more than just who did it, what they were like and what they did. Histories, reactions and media coverage must also be involved. This is why I think that Columbine is an excellent example of the story of Columbine. Cullen ties the facts with the other necessary information to pull it all together. If the judge hadn’t ordered done it, they still would not have been secured.
5. School killers revealing their plans should definitely be caught now. People need to be able to distinguish when their peers are completely joking and when there is a possibility that they are serious about attacking their school and/or making bombs that could potentially kill hundreds of people. We need to be cautious and listen to what our friends and neighbors are saying, rather than just dismiss their seemingly joking comments as just that. We simply need to be more aware of what’s going on around us.
7. I think people in schools including students, administrators, counselors and teachers have definitely listened a bit more critically to what the people around them are saying. People fear another incident like Columbine, so we pay more attention to warning signs like excessive talk about guns and killing. I think the 80 attacks since Columbine were copycats. They found a relatively easy way to attain “15 minutes of fame”, and they got their wish in a 5 minute blurb on the evening news. When people realize that the cost outweighs the benefit, the school violence will dwindle and then hopefully cease.
9. It’s interesting because while Patrick Ireland says that the shooting did not define him as a person, yet anyone that is familiar with the tragedy will define him as a Columbine survivor. He’s not just another married man; he’s a married man that survived one of the most infamous school shootings in history. I feel bad for him, as he thinks of himself as an individual, but the rest of the world basically lumps him in with Columbine and the shooting.
Dhruv #5- Columbine really did eliminate the notion of school safety. It definitely made people more aware that you are still in danger at school. Any type of comment like that really will not be dismissed nowadays due to zero-tolerance policies enacted in most schools.
ReplyDeleteDhruv #7- The response time was certainly one of the biggest lessons learned. Unfortunately, I think we learned more about how to react in the situation of a school shooting than how to prevent one. It’s also true that every situation if difference and appropriate actions should be taken in each one. There is no cookie-cutter method to dealing with school shootings.
Elana #6- I agree completely. I feel that they should have handed the case over to people more qualified (the FBI) right off the bat. They were in over their heads but refused help and just ended up mucking everything up. I would even go as far to say that complete chaos is an understatement for this situation.
Shelby #8- I also found it disturbing that he got “bored” with murder. It really shows us how much he valued a human life, to see it in action, then take it away and move on. I found it chilling that Cullen described their suicides so graphically.
Kelsea #6- I would agree that Jeffco were basically the most responsible and should receive most of the blame. I can’t believe they overlooked the death threat then covered up all of Eric’s previous offenses including the affidavit.
1) Dylan, out of the two killers, was the reluctant one. I feel like Eric enticed him and convinced him that this was his only way to freedom. By writing the story that he turned in, he was able to feel the way Eric felt all along. He envisioned himself as a morphed villain of himself and Eric. He could feel the power of deciding who lived and who died. On the other hand, he turned it in because maybe that way he wouldn't have to go through with it. Maybe someone would stop them before it was too late. Although the teacher did try to pull the alarm that something was off, others didn't take any validity to the claim. Maybe if they had considered Dylan's lack of progress throughout counseling they would've taken it more seriously, but as it was, they all believed that Dylan may have been disturbed, but he wouldn't get violent.
ReplyDelete2) Rohrbough's feelings of grief, and maybe a bit of limelight, were definitely misplaced when directed at the school. Sure, the school missed some signs of violence from the boys, but no more than anyone else who knew them or came in contact with them. I don't want to belittle Mr. Rohrbough's loss, which was great, but throughout the whole saga he started to really annoy me. His son died, and yet he thought that the value of his lost life was greater than the other victims who survived. Personally I think that the survivors deserved more of the settlement for medical bills. Everyone looked for someone or something to blame for the tragedy, and Rohrbough chose what was right in front of him.
1. I think Dylan was sticking his toe in the lake; what would it feel like to be Eric, the murderer? He was able to adapt Eric's plan into a story to profile how it would feel. I agree absolutely; the teacher did all that she could and appropriately so. Of course the counselor should have done more, but no one suspected anything at this time.
ReplyDelete2. His opinions are always going to be justified, however, his actions I do not condone. He was a pest after a while, just stirring up trouble for information he never seemed to use. He needed to place the blame somewhere, but I think he truly never found the spot.
6. Nothing really; they were trying to do their job making sure all of their information was flawlessly correct and all assumptions were backed up with proof. To prevent leaks and the like, yes the FBI could have handled it better since they are a federal agency and are more experiences in suppressing information. Yes, justice was done. what's the point of having a bunch of information that may or may not make sense? They needed to sort through everything first.
7. The lessons learned are the warning signs like rumors, and odd feelings from students, but mainly to lay low and allow the perpetrators to come forward, not in action, but in leaks. Of course this type of violence will never stop, most are trying to top a previous one, and they just keep layering up. There is a massive stockpile of failed attempts where one could devise one to not fail.
8. Exactly how inactive Eric and Dylan were. I believe it was the best place since by now the reader has a full understanding of events and feeling prior. It shows how the "massacre" wasn't that long or too bad, considering VT and other more deadly occurrences.
Dhruv #5 - I agree; our society has adapted to thwart such plots whether the "plotter" was "joking" or not.
ReplyDeleteElana #6 - As true as your statement is, I have to point out that Jeffco was trying to turn the chaos into a nice orderly reports, but pressure from the parents and the courts rushed a chaotic semi-report out.
Shelby F #8 - True that knowledge is disturbingly relieving; at least he was past it then. And I agree, he pieced the scene out at the perfect time and based off of true unbiased knowledge, no dialogue or specific deaths.
Kelsea #1 - Based off what I think you said, I disagree, from experience. In 10th grade lit I wrote a sonnet that happened to be very depressing about a tree that was so down, it was happy when lightning finally struck it. I'm not a psychopathic future murderer. A paper is not enough to judge a depressive killer from a student just inspired to write something depressing.
Alexandra #3 - Valid point, the knowledge was just a psychological win, not really a physical win. Truly the information provides a motive that no one wanted to accept: eradicating the human race starting at Columbine.
4) This chapter symbolized somewhat of a closure to me, not that there can ever be closure for such a horrible thing as what happened. Cullen showed us what Columbine led to, how the survivors and those who weren't directly affected by the shooting reacted. The predictable outcomes were most of the lawsuits, against Jeffco and such, but none of them I really expected to go through. I can't say that Mr. D's divorce came as a complete surprise, because I know what damage PTSD can cause in relationships, especially when no one really knew what that was. I thought it was really sad though, that Mr. D lost his marriage and that Columbine was a major factor. It was pretty uplifting though when he decided to stay at Columbine as principal, to see through all of the kids that experienced the tragedy.
ReplyDelete5) I think that Columbine should most definitely be used as a learning experience on how these types of tragedies may possibly be avoided. It's true that sometimes you just can't really know for sure what someone is capable of doing or even what they are willing to carry out. I think that we can definitely look out for signs of something like this, but we can't get caught up in joking threats. Because of what happened at Columbine, people should become more aware of what is going on around them, and open their ears and listen. It's not certain that we can prevent all of these acts of violence from occurring, but keeping a careful eye and ear out can't hurt.
9) The names of 'Columbine' are famous, and well known. Although the shooting did not define the survivors' life afterwards, it did influence it. Patrick could not fulfill his dreams of becoming an architect because of his injuries. Mr. D's marriage fell apart because of his PTSD. The shooting itself did not define their identities, but it definitely impacted their lives.
Telisha-#6 I totally agree, the Jeffco coverups really pissed me off, especially since they kept covering up the truth even after they were found out. The FBI would've been better to handle the whole thing.
ReplyDeleteMegan-#8 Very well put. I agree that the chapter was well placed and enlightening. It went through my head like a movie, and really gave a sense of suspenseful action to the event.
Richie-#7 I think you make some awesome points. And when it boils down to it, I totally agree that the only way that the risk of shootings will go away is by banning guns and enforcing that, but even then I think that kids would still manage to get their hands on them. What the book revealed was truly enlightening, but even knowledge of things like these can't totally prevent them from happening.
Alexandra-#3 I don't know that I necessarily agree fully with this. I think that the released information definitely brought closure to the families, but also I think it dispelled a lot of the myths that the public believed. The only thing that hindered that was the fact that no one trusted Jeffco because they were stupid and kept it hidden.
Kelsea-#1 I agree with you here, that Dylan may have wanted the paper to be disturbed. And yes, after the fact it was obvious from the paper that something wasn't right with Dylan, but at the time no one really believed that.
5. In the post-Columbine world we live in, it is far less likely that a joking threat will be dismissed. When elementary schoolers are sent home for bringing a metal knife to lunch for their food, it is clear that the world is on perpetual high alert for any sort of potentially violent behavior. It really comes down to a case by case basis however, the jokes we make in this class are sometimes on the level of the ones that Eric often made, but none of us have killed anybody yet that we know of.
ReplyDelete6. In my opinion the whole situation was a guaranteed loss for anybody involved. No matter what department or legal agency it was that handled the events, there still would have been considerable distress and frustration, rightfully so, on the part of the parents, victims, and survivors. The cover up, while eventually harmful was certainly the right thing to do a the time as it provided a momentary respite.
7. Unfortunately this type of violence will probably never be stopped without stricter gun regulation and/or airport-style security in schools. There will always be some segment of the population that has a high risk of psychopathy and is inclined to act on it, putting us as a society at risk.
ReplyDelete8. The chapter “Quiet” was one of the most interesting and emotionally charged chapters in the book for me. The shift to the perspective of the killers during the quiet period of the shooting is an interesting, yet disturbing one. When viewed with Cullen’s characteristic analytical precession and coldness, it is a truly terrifying chapter seeing the view of a psychopath during their final acts.
9. The impact of the shooting on the survivors was truly something that had to be determined on a case by case basis. Patrick Ireland fought like mad to keep true to himself and not let the shooting shape him as a person, while others who lost those close to him were, to some extent unavoidably, scarred by the events and aftermath of the shooting.
Dhruv 5- True there are harsher penalties to those who say stuff like this and there are better zero tolerance rules but people can still say whatever they want because of the amendments. They will be safe as long as they don’t act, and then its too late.
ReplyDeleteDhruv 8- I don’t think he downplayed it at all, just merely another point of view. It did make the killings make more sense so I see how it was downplayed, but I think it was just another vantage point.
Elana 1- I agree with the part about his motivation being from his depression but the teacher didn’t truly didn’t do enough. If she did more she could have prevented this from happening and found out he was depressed and wanted to kill people.
Elana 6- In Jeffco’s defense it was a difficult situation to be in. It was not a normal crime and many people were affected and very emotional. However he did do a horrific job about what he found.
Kelsea 7- Yes they learned that they should move quicker into a situation like that, but we still haven’t learned that some people can hide it very well. We can say we have all we want, but if there are still shootings going on. We still haven’t learned the most important lesson: preventing. Preventing by figuring out who is psycho and who isn’t.
Telisha, #5: Part of me feels like I still wouldn’t find it particularly strange if one of my friends made a simple death joke. But overt references to gruesome violence like the ones Eric and Dylan made are simply too conspicuous to ignore. Whether or not someone gets reported really depends on the choice of words one uses and the person who hears the words.
ReplyDeleteTali, #1: I agree that the Dylan was trying to warn people with his writing piece, but I do not think it’s fair to say that the teacher did not take enough action. She did as she was trained to do. Outside of calling the police (who probably wouldn’t have taken her seriously, given that she would have been calling over a writing assignement), what else could she have done?
Dhruv, #8: I think chilling is the perfect word to describe this chapter. For example, Cullen says “They killed two people and advanced into the school.” Cullen’s terseness portrays the heartlessness of the attacks.
Elena, #6: I couldn’t agree with you more. The FBI should have taken care of the case because the head of the Jeffco police force was simply incompetent.
Shelby F, #9: I think it’s important that Cullen focus on the various effects that Columbine had on different people so that people don’t just categorize it as another tragedy. Patrick Ireland and other Columbine-survivors serve as Cullen’s examples to solidify this point.
1. I think Dylan needed a place to vent out his anger. He did this in other places too that were more private and not read by others until after he killed himself. I think he wanted an opinion of someone else. He assumed he could get a reaction from his teacher but probably not have any serious consequences. The paper also helped him go through wtth the plans, as it said he kept it in his car intentionally meant to blow up the day of the shootings. The teacher did not necessarily all that she could have done. But she did do what I think is a good effort. She contacted three different people and it was bold of her to even contact those three. She risked setting up an innocent kid for search. But he was not. The counselor on the other hand should have done a lot more.
ReplyDelete2. I think people will justify his opinions just because people will feel sympathy for him. I think his feelings definitely were a part of his heeling process. People always want something to blame and at least he wasn’t blaming the parents I don’t think. But blaming the school was pointless and didn’t solve anything so I would definitely not agree with his reasoning.
3. I think the story of Columbine was told almost fully. We don’t have to know everything that happened 100%. I think Cullen explained the situation to a point where the readers can almost fully understand everything. The sealed materials would have explained more but I think everything we did learn was enough. It seems as though everything was eventually leaked to the public at some point so I do think the material might have been revealed also. But maybe not.
5. I think that it could possibly be treated the same way. Many people could mistaken them for joking or just not take them seriously. Although more authorities are aware of the no tolerance idea and know to take everything seriously, many kids are not. It would be a bold move for a student to report another student. The student would not want to be wrong about it if they were joking.
6. I think it was ridiculous for Jeffco to try to cover it up. Eventually it would get out and they just made everything worse. I think they should have handed it over to the FBI right away. The FBI is more qualified to handle situations like that and Jeffco just made a fool of themselves. I do think justice was served
5 I think people should defiantly be on the lookout for signs like these, because obviously they can be pretty obvious. But I do not think Eric and Dylan’s friends could have even realized their friends could do something like this. I would like to believe if someone said crazy things like Eric did it would be reported, but I don’t think teens take things to seriously.
ReplyDelete7. It’s sad to think that America has such a violent history and so many great people are lost in these tragedies, but I don’t think as long as we have access to guns school shootings will be prevalent. I think we can learn from Columbine by not waiting to catch the killers and act on the situation immediately. The less people lost by these acts of violence, the better.
8. this chapter was really scary to read. I do like the way Cullen approached the chapter, and I think it adds a great perspective for the book. I think Cullen did a great job in the placement of the chapter it really tied the whole book together because throughout the whole book you read bits and pieces of what happened the day of school shooting, but by ending it with “Quiet” it ties the book together.
3. in my opinion they handled the case completely wrong, and the whole thing was conducted poorly. They should have had other people take care of the situation.
6. now that I think about it, Jeffco police should shoulder most of the blame. They did not take the death threats from Eric seriously, or the arrests. There were so many obvious signs that could have prevented the shooting that the police totally over looked
1.Dylan was asking for help with the paper he wrote! Dylan knew what he was planning to do was wrong, and he wanted someone to intervene. He faced a lot of pressure, maybe indirectly, from Eric and telling him he couldn’t participate anymore would look terrible for Dylan; it also would mean he would lose a close friend. Dylan wanted someone to take action so that he could get out of it… just my opinion.
ReplyDelete3. It was imperative of the judge to require that the materials be handed over. There was just too much information, too big of an investigation for Jeffco officials to handle it on their own. Forcing this allowed the real story to surface, although it may have been too late for some folk. It was a good move on the part of the judge in order to be sure everything was maintained properly.
5. People need to be made aware of the signs and symptoms of mental disorders, such as psychopathy, depression and other illnesses. Awareness may mean that more friends, or families will recognize these things in their acquaintances. Because people use powerful words so loosely these days it is hard to decipher between the ill and those who are just blowing off steam. It can be difficult to tell between the two.
6. Jeffco was simply not prepared for something of that size to attack their small town. Jeffco officials should have recognized their need for outside help long before they did. The number of times they gave out inaccurate, off the wall information was absurd.
7. Since the attack at Columbine the multitude of school shootings is astounding. We would like to think that because this happened once it wouldn’t happen again because the public and community would be aware of the terror and devastation and would find someway to prevent it. But truth is: history repeats itself, over and over and over again. School shootings will probably always be around. So long as there are schools and people with mental disorders walking the face of the earth.
8. This was an intense chapter. The descriptions, chronology, everything laid out in front of you. It makes you think- how could someone have planned these things? Maybe sometimes you blurt out ‘I want to kill him’ out of frustration, but with no actual intention of even hurting someone, it baffles me to no end that someone actually did murder these people. And thought about it for so long and still allowed themselves to do it. The events being laid out in front of me in that format got to me. It was interesting.
5. I feel that today, if a killer had revealed his plans to anyone, there would be a much higher chance of them being caught, Nowadays, teachers are trained to teach students to report anything suspicious to them, and strict no tolerance policies are always in effect in school zones.
ReplyDelete1. I feel as though Dylan's reason for writing the paper was his emotional unstableness and state of depression. Although the teacher did all she could, I still feel as if they completely ignored this warning and nobody gave it enough attention. The counselor clearly should have picked up clues from the paper, and the entire tragedy could have been avoided.
7. After Columbine, the main lesson learned was too never allow a potential killer to have too much slack, keeping a close eye on possible killers. However, I do not believe this type of violence will ever be stopped simply due to the fact that it is impossible to know who is a killer and exactly when they are going to strike.
6. Jeffco's handling of the entire investigation was overall very sloppy and unorganized. Their trouble handling the case was obvious, and they should have turned the case to the FBI who can have taken matter into their own hands. Also, I felt that Jeffco did not achieve any sort of justice by covering up facts behind the shooting.
9. Patrick Ireland's statement represents the courage and confidence of the survivors. Although Patrick has fought hard to not let the tragedy effect him, others may be scarred or forever paranoid due to what had happened. Overall, however, I feel as though most the students felt too scarred to not allow it to affect them at all.
Katilyn #5) I agree, I don’t think that things people say are taken seriously enough. But I think that we are all to blame for this. We have come desensitized to things that should shock us. Between the media and our lackadaisical attitudes toward certain phrases we are no longer even affected by phrases that should spark something inside of us.
ReplyDeleteLori #1) A good effort? That’s what we are calling this. When it comes to thirteen people’s lives and others being critically injured, not to mention the emotional stress put on so many people, we are looking for a good effort? Do I think that the teacher could have prevented it all together? No, absolutely not. But if multiple people had stepped in and done small things I do think it would have added up. Each person only saw one piece to the puzzle though so it’s difficult to blame anyone. In the end it’s no one person’s fault. Eric and Dylan made the decisions they made. I also think Dylan was looking for help, attention (not in a negative way, I don’t think he was wanting to bask in the attention he might receive from a teacher of counselor concerning this issue). I believe it was almost a cry for help. I don’t completely disagree with what I believe you are trying to say, I just disagree how you’ve said it.
Kaitlyn #8) Not sure what you are trying to say here… “It’s sad to think that America has such a violent history and so many great people are lost in these tragedies, but I don’t think as long as we have access to guns school shootings will be prevalent.” If you are saying that not having guns would prevent this I totally disagree. The people that have guns are the people that are going to get guns even if its illegal. Think about how Eric got his guns and ammo. Yes they were fairly easy to access, but banning guns all together would not have prevent Eric from finding a way to create his own ‘natural selection’.
Shelby #9) I think that Cullen wanted people to see how it affected everyone that was involved in any way, and give the audience a full picture of the events, physical, and emotional toll.
Xander #5) I agree, our society has the tendency sometimes to over-react to the stupid stuff, and under-react to the big stuff. We need to be aware of the signs, but not over bearing.
Dhruv 5 - I agree with you, I also believe that schools have become much more uptight about suspicious student behavior and they are strongly acted upon.
ReplyDeleteReba 7 - I agree with you fully, we can never stop one hundred percent of school shootings from happening because there are always going to be people who are mentally or emotionally unstable.
Kaitlyn 3 - I agree with you, their effort and handling of the entire situation was poorly performed.
Elana 1 - I agree with this statement. I too can not put blame on the teacher, however I believe the counselor should have picked up at least a couple clues from the paper.
Tali 5 - I understand what you are saying and agree with your answer; it is up to the peers of other students to be able to tell when their friends are being serious or just joking around, and this type of behavior should be reported.
Dhruv #5- I don't agree with you at all. I hear a good number of death threats and angry tirades (often times I am the source of these threats) around WHS, and I don't ever remember reporting anybody (or anybody reporting me).
ReplyDeleteReebs #1- I totally agree. Dylan was really lost, and I think he really wanted help.
Kaitlyn #3- They really did, but I don't know if another government agency would have helped the situation. Although I absolutely disagree with the actions of the Jeffco police officers, I can understand why they tried to hide that information. I don't know if another task force would have handled it any differently (because you can't trust the PO-PO); I actually believe the FBI would have made things more difficult. The Jeffco officials were familiar with the residents, and they had the potential to have an honest and peaceful investigation. The FBI would have probably cast a cold and imposing shadow over the suffering town.
Xander #8- I agree; reading "Quiet" was very unnerving. The imagery was very intense.
Reebs #7- I totally agree. The average Joe can't detect a psychopath, so these incidents will always be around.
2. Brian Rohrbough was a victim of a loss that turned into a pest towards the public. He has every right to feel the need to take initiative for his son's loss, but his persistence lessened the value of his intended purpose. Maybe he started off with good intentions of moving on, but got caught up in the attention.
ReplyDelete5. Suspicion will definitely occur, but I doubt "threats" would be reported. There are millions of kids who say they want to kill someone, I do it almost daily out of solely being annoyed! What I am trying to say is that light remarks commonly heard will not be reported. However if there is evidence of actual weapons, I do believe it is more likely someone will report that.
6. If anything is hidden away it is clearly a bad thing. Therefore, I found it just annoying that the chief would be so unprofessional just to put himself out of blames way. Once the website was uncovered an investigation should of occurred. The FBI did not necessarily need to be involved (until that investigation occurred proving bombs were being built). There is no justice in covering up information.
7. The only lesson that could possibly be learned is officials taking more precaution in what they believe to be idle teen threats. The violence could be controlled by teacher awareness depending on the student however if they are psychopaths...what do you do?
8. In this chapter, Cullen covered the entire attack from the time, to who they killed, to where they died, and how it went down. This was basically the last chapter about the event, so it was perfectly placed to give the reader a summary of what they just read. Throughout the book we learn about the killers, the victims, and motives. He takes all of the information and concludes his masterpiece.
Dhruv #5 – I understand the severity of the event, and the attention it caused worldwide. However, like the holocaust, history becomes less impacting as it ages. So sure people will report obvious acts of owning guns or creating bombs, but comments of destruction will probably be dismissed.
ReplyDeleteElana #1 – You are right, Dylan slipped up due to his state of depression and vulnerability. He wrote it feeling confident and assumed it would be dismissed as outstanding work. He was unaware of the level of violence he wrote because he was so familiar with it due to Eric. As for the teacher, she did do all she could in her power, and that just sucks.
Shelby #7 – Exactly, the police should pay more attention to potentially dangerous threats rather than dismissing them as idle threats. The police should of admitted to their carelessness of dismissing the case in the beginning rather than lying themselves into a corner. And again you are correct, there is always one. Columbine opened a door for dumb people to follow in their footsteps.
Kelsea #6 – I do not think the Jeffco police had a difficult time handling the case, I think they just dismissed it all together. The FBI is not necessary unless there is evidence of bombs and bad intentions. If the police had done their job correctly they would have searched his house, discovered the plans, and contacted the FBI for further handling.
Alexandra #3 – Exactly, the judge simply provided closure for the families because they were done and ready to move on. Even if the truth had been revealed early on, the media would still have had a handle on the public eye. This just goes back to the fact that the media produces what the public wants rather than the truth.
1. I think that Dylan was most likely influenced by Eric. He has the passion and Eric lit it up. In the form of this writing, he expressed those feelings. I feel the teacher tried her hardest but inevitably could not do anything. As the girl said, it was creative writing class. The fact that his paper was disturbing does not necessarily have anything to do with his mental status. It could’ve been investigated on further, but one paper cannot give a complete mapping of a person’s mind.
ReplyDelete2. I believe that Brian was definitely exaggerating when he said that the school had caused these murders. In the five stages of grief, there is denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance. Brain seemed to be stuck on anger. He was angry at the killers, at the school, and at himself. The fact that he placed blame on the school was just a part of his grieving process.
3. The whole story will probably never be told. There are still crucial pieces of evidence that were destroyed in the conspiracy of Jeffco officials to “cover their asses.” There are holes that will never be filled. However, if Judge Jackson had not ordered evidence to be released, there would be many more holes. The whole situation wouldn’t have made any sense compared to how it seems now.
5. Honestly, if I considered someone a friend and he said something like “I’ve got a gun.” I would think he was kidding around. Even, “Do you know how to make napalm?” I would take as a joke. It would have to be extremely serious for me to begin even considering it, and that would also have to include the fact that my friend would not being smiling. I imagine Eric smiled while thinking about this, and many people would take smiling as a hint of a joke. Even if someone noticed something, many times that someone would not consider it big enough to “snitch” out a friend.
6. Jeffco didn’t seem like an actual law enforcement agency. All of the head officers came together to hide evidence to make themselves look good. When it all came out, it was a huge embarrassment for all law enforcement parties. If the FBI had jurisdiction, they should’ve taken it, especially on a high-class crime like this. I feel like no justice was done; tampering with evidence, federal if it was given to the FBI, is a crime, and at least one person should’ve been punished.
2) Brian’s son was killed; that alone will cause an intense mourning period and probably change his entire personality in some ways. The death of a son is not easy for anyone, and someone in his situation would try to place blame no matter their background. Surely it’s not a good thing, but it is still acceptable and should be expected in this instance.
ReplyDelete5) In this incident, none of the kids that knew said anything, so nothing more could really have been done in that sense. However, kids today need to know that telling an adult is ok and that if they suspect anything of anyone, they need to report it.
7) Eighty school shootings in 11 years is eighty too many, plain and simple. Clearly no lessons have been learned by those who need to be taught. This type of violence does need to be dimmed, yet it will never stop for good, that is just an unrealistic objective.
8) This chapter was a good read for me as it really put everything in perspective and made many things that had confused me much clearer in my mind. I like being able to place events in chronological order, so I thoroughly enjoyed this chapter.
9) To each his own. The survivors will each change differently after such a horrific event, so this question cannot be answered simply. Patrick Ireland had the most intense physical damage, yet he claims he is not changed by it. Surely there are students who were only emotionally devastated, yet they might live in the shadows of their own houses and hate society.
Dhruv #5 - Yes, Zero Tolerance policies are designed to catch people who say these things, but how many people does it actually catch. I see the occasional second grader getting suspended for holding up a pencil in a “menacing” way. I, however, don’t see news headlines saying, “Potential School Shooter Stopped By Zero Tolerance.” Would you really take me seriously if I put my hand in the shape of a gun and said “boom”? You would take it as a joke; everyone would. Even if a teacher didn’t and I got suspended, there would be two outcomes: I would either be thinking how stupid it is that I got ISS from a joke, or I would be laughing inside how stupid it is that they think because I got ISS that it’s going to stop me from shooting up the school. Yes, people are a bit more aware, but they aren’t aware enough.
ReplyDeleteElana #1 - In sophomore year, I wrote a ballad about a “normal” student, who commited suicide from unknown reasons; I led my audience to assume bullying. I read it out loud. My teacher approached me about this paper asking if I was suicidal. I denied it and that was the end of that, other than a few future jokes about it. Now say it wasn’t suicide but homicide. Of course I would deny it in the same way. No one could possibly tell the difference, unless I was a god-forsaken, horrible liar, which I don’t think I am. There are cues, but it’s just writing. Writing proves nothing.
Shelby #1 - I think Dylan leaked it out because of his personality. He never wanted to kill anyone, except himself. He definitely wrote it because he was bouncing with anxiousness about it, but subconsciously it is possible that he wanted to let it known before it happened.
Kelsea #9 - I agree. I do believe that this event will affect each and every victim’s life, some more than others. Patrick was especially strong throughout his recovery with one goal in mind. He does not represent the whole. He represents the extreme. The mom, who committed suicide, represents the other extreme. Everyone else is somewhere in the center. It will affect them, some more than others, and some will be affected for the rest of their life.
Alex #6 - “Cops are crooked.” It’s honestly more like “Humans are crooked.” The mentality, as you have stated, of these cops is to save themselves. Who cares about the emotional pain of the families as long as I don’t go to jail for not seeing this beforehand? They could’ve stopped this, and everyone suspects it, but without that evidence, no one can prove it.
Reeba’s comment about my post:
ReplyDeleteYeah I was trying to figure out how to word what I meant and I just went with that. But I do think the teacher took the steps for what she thought she should do. She didn’t call the police or anything but she trusted it in the hands of the counselor who was more trained for what to do in these situations. She assumed if the counselor did not think it was very serious then she should respect her opinion.
Tali #5:
I agree teens need to be more aware of the signs. Maybe we should all take a class on how to identify the signs of future killers or is that too extreme? Maybe it’s worth it in the end?
Shelby W #7:
Good question. What would teachers do if they thought someone was a psychopath? Well more what would authorities do once they were reported? They can’t arrest them if they have not necessarily done anything. Would they just lock them up?
Arvin #5:
It’s true that the no tolerance act probably helps and teachers are more aware of what to do but I wonder if people planning on killing someone have gotten smarter about it also? Some killers might research other major massacres done by students and learn from their mistakes. I think if Eric was in our time now, with access to many online stories of previous massacres, he would have tried to make his bigger and better and fix all of the things that went wrong with others. So I think other psychopaths could do the same. Meaning if a psychopath was to read about how people tend to leak their stories they might be less likely to admit their plans. But then again many future killers probably don’t think about things like this.
Shelby W. #5:
That is very true that now people say things like “I just want to kill someone” and it is not even in a joking way it has just become an expression many people use to let out anger. So it could easily be hard to distinguish the difference in someone being serious or not.
1. Dylan, subconsciously at least, might have wanted someone to stop him. Dylan wanted to be happy, and he wanted to find love. Despite his yearnings, Dylan was seemingly clinically depressed, and there is no way to fix this without time and often medication. Dylan had waited for two years before going on his rampage with Eric. This is not the sign of someone who truly wants to be rid of the world. This is a sign of someone looking for help. Cullen projects that Dylan wrote the paper to explore the idea of murder, but he may have turned it in to share his thoughts with someone who was not connected to either him or Eric. The counselor did seem to notice the clues in Dylan’s paper, and appeared to do everything she reasonably could have to warn others in a position of more authority. Perhaps the tragedy could have been averted if the counselor warned the police, but I think she did everything right. Hindsight makes so much clear that would not have been apparent at the time.
ReplyDelete5. Some comments would definitely be dismissed, but with information provided by Detective Fuselier, Eric and Dylan might have been caught. Fuselier’s mention of the specificity with which potential murderers discuss their plans is particularly helpful. However, when it comes to dealing with a psychopath, rules are certainly not always followed. Eric mentioned blowing up teens as they tried to pass through the fence specifically when trying to recruit his boss and jocks when trying to recruit his friend. He could read people so well that the plans he suggested were not actually his own. Still, citing specific strategies suggests action or a good imagination instead of venting anger. Eric’s friends would still likely have felt like they knew him, and thus trust him as well, even if they knew about the warning signs for mass murderers. If he had ended up bragging specifically to one of them, it probably would have been sufficient to cause serious repercussions, but Eric’s bragging and attempts at recruiting were spread out among friends. I think that even if each had known of the warning signs, he would have still trusted Eric enough to believe he would not actually do anything that serious. It would be difficult, after all, to believe that a friend would actually commit such an atrocity.
6. I think that in order to become law-enforcement agents with clean records in the first place, the Jeffco officials had to be decent people. Cullen mentioned no other conspiracy about the validity of the investigation. It seems like the investigation was valid and all of the mistakes were made before Columbine was over. In addition, the vast majority of investigators were not even involved in the cover-up. There was no foreseeable reason (to everyone who did not participate in the cover-up) to turn the investigation completely over to another organization. The FBI would have members with more specific training and experience, but Jeffco investigators and officers would know the town and its people better. No one took the blame for the cover-up in a court of law, but if there is insufficient evidence to convict, then it is still justice to not convict. The officers involved ended up facing the consequences they tried to prevent in the end, and their actions did not directly harm anyone. That is some form of justice, just a form of justice with no retribution.
ReplyDelete7. I think that no lesson has been permanently learned. Protocol has changed, and sometimes that is good, but sometimes it could very well be bad. The general public seems to have learned nothing. I believed some of the Columbine myths before reading this book. An even greater level of global attention was received with the attack on 9/11, and conspiracies still resounded. I know my dad still thinks that 9/11 was orchestrated by President Bush to get money from the treasury underneath one of the towers. The attack on September 11 is referred to as 9/11 in much the same way the attack on Columbine is referred to as Columbine. Perhaps more killers are apprehended early, but these would be the obscure cases few people hear about, and even then I wonder how exactly government officials plan on forever watching over a dangerous person who has not actually committed a crime yet. Violence of this kind will never be stopped unless some type of mind control is exerted on the human species or we evolve to have no psychopaths, no one clinically depressed, no one with strong anger, no one treated badly in high school, no one treated badly as a child, no one with bipolar disorder, no one brave enough to sacrifice himself, no one with religious views different from anyone else’s, no one obsessed with violence. Terrorist attacks can never be stopped because, by definition, they are attacks by one or more individuals. Anger will always exist, different viewpoints will always exist, and individuals will always exist. So will terrorism always exist.
9. The stories show that everyone reacts differently, but if make it past the first few years, they grow to move on. Misty Bernall is obviously still quite affected. Even Patrick Ireland is still affected. He may feel self-conscious about his pinky when shaking someone’s hand or have difficulty waterskiing, but he has a positive attitude and has moved on. Students did not wish to meet for more reunions because that forced them to relive the day the tragedy occurred, but yet years later parents were still trying to get the monument built. It varies, and the essays show this while leaving out the sad bits at the end. Cullen wrote about several of the victim’s struggles right after the tragedy, but focused on Patrick Ireland’s at the end. Perhaps this is because Patrick had this viewpoint, because he did move on. What about all of the kids on suicide watch? What about the others injured besides Patrick and Anne? What about those suffering from PTSD? Cullen focuses on what can be learned and how people have, in their own ways, at their own time, moved on. It makes for a fantastic appeal to pathos, but I wish for a solid appeal to logos. I know that while we have personalized with the victims, we have also left out scope. The percentage of those injured whose progress is described is certainly not statistically significant, but it is still nice to hear about those who have fared well.
ReplyDeleteDhruv ^
ReplyDelete"Jeffco really failed with the data management process over Columbine. Part of the failure rests on the Sherrif's incredible ineptitude and the lack of a proper response to a crisis of this magnitude. I am a pro-leaker, so I disapprove of the covering up of information that was done. The cover up left families in the dark about the deaths or near-deaths of their children, and spawned many false rumors and myths. Due to the size of the crisis, the investigation should have been turned over to the FBI, who has had experience with large crisis like this incident."
The FBI probably should have had a lot more involvement, at least in the upper tiers of management. I wonder if part of the media rampage could have been avoided had a competent FBI official been talking to the camera instead.
Reba 5
"People need to be made aware of the signs and symptoms of mental disorders, such as psychopathy, depression and other illnesses. Awareness may mean that more friends, or families will recognize these things in their acquaintances. Because people use powerful words so loosely these days it is hard to decipher between the ill and those who are just blowing off steam. It can be difficult to tell between the two."
I completely agree. I think that the problem has less to do with the screening system, shall we say, for high schoolers than it has to do with general teen angst and petty threats meant with no real intent. I can imagine that it would be difficult for teachers in particular, because they are not in high school any more, to understand exactly when a student is not being serious.
Megan 8
"From “Quiet,” I finally got a full understanding of what happened, start to finish, in the shooting where Eric and Dylan were concerned. At the beginning of the book, Cullen summarized it, but he also included stories of what was happening outside of the school; I thought it was illuminating to see only Eric and Dylan’s actions, and to learn of how they had killed themselves. I thought that this chapter was placed extremely well. All of the book’s story lines came together, and it was a good choice to go back over the events of the shooting after many, many chapters concerning the buildup and the aftermath. It made Patrick’s survival more amazing, and the deaths of the thirteen more tragic; it made Eric and Dylan’s suicides take on a new meaning."
That chapter did bring together the events we saw in the very first chapter, the victims, and the killer's psyches. In a way, we came full circle. It is as if we unfolded layer after layer of the tragedy so we can go back and look at it again with a new understanding.
Austin 2
ReplyDelete"Brian’s son was killed; that alone will cause an intense mourning period and probably change his entire personality in some ways. The death of a son is not easy for anyone, and someone in his situation would try to place blame no matter their background. Surely it’s not a good thing, but it is still acceptable and should be expected in this instance."
Brian should not be freed of blame because he lost a son. It is a terrible tragedy, and I suppose people should not hold him completely accountable for his actions, but they are still his actions. Brian took so much away from the healing process by drawing more attention to things people just wanted to let be and seemed to behave similarly even years after the tragedy when he was nominated by a third party for vice-president. His personality would have been slightly affected by the tragedy, but personalities are fairly constant in lieu of psychiatric disorder. He would not change overnight,and he would not change completely.
Richie 7
"I have learned that the adolescent mind is a volatile and unpredictable. Both and Eric and Dylan were both psychologically unstable, yes, but as Columbine reveals, the failure of the plan was due to poor planning. The frontal lobe of the brain is thought to govern planning and decision-making, and studies show that this part of the brain is still developing in teenage brains. With that being said, knowing that teenagers, including myself, are physically unequipped to make smart long-term decision has made me more conscientious about how I make day-to-day choices and what impact they will have on my life. The impulsivity of the adolescent brain is not something that can be avoided; there will always be teens that act on their passing fancies. Knowing this, I doubt that school shootings will ever completely disappear from society unless measures are taken to prevent teens from having guns…but I also doubt that will happen anytime soon."
I have thought about this before, and it is a little odd, that teenagers are given so much more responsibility in just a year or two. It seems backwards. I feel sorry for Dylan particularly because of this. He made the decision to end his life and others before his brain was even done developing.