1. How do you feel about the tone of the chapter 'Jesus Jesus Jesus'? Is it suitably respectful to the religious beliefs of the people in Columbine in their reaction to the attacks? Is it analytical enough of the beliefs?
2. Eric's website (complete with bomb instructions) was reported to the police on August 7, 1997. Does this seem like a place where Eric's eventual plans could have been stopped? Why do you think that this violent information seems to have been ignored and wasn't followed up on?
3. 'Good-bye' has the first musing of Fuselier regarding Dylan and Eric's sanity. Given what we read here do you feel that they were sane? Do you think we know enough about psychopathy at this point in the book to make a decision regarding whether or not Eric is a psychopath? We have read quite a bit about Dylan's depression by this point - does he seem to be depressed enough to be mentally ill by this point in your opinion?
4. Eric and Dylan became enthralled with films like 'Natural Born Killers' and 'Lost Highway' and musicians like Nine Inch Nails. Do you think society/the media do an injustice to filmmakers and musicians when we tie them to the actions of deranged killers? Do you think there is any justification in being concerned with the effect of violent films and music on teens - and/or is this something that requires the attention of a parent on a case by case basis?
5. Wayne Harris finds one of Eric's pipe bombs. Since this happened shortly after the locker incident do you think that he should have been paying closer attention to what his son was doing? What do you make of his reaction to this - do you think that he was too concerned with protecting his son and was too worried about his future or was he simply acting like a protective parent?
6. Dwayne Fuselier began dismissing a conspiracy theory within a week of the attack on Columbine. Why do you think the local authorities clung onto the theory longer? Was it because it is difficult to imagine that an attack of this magnitude could be planned by two boys or because they wanted living people to blame?
7. Refute or defend the NRA's visit to the Denver area two weeks after the shooting at Columbine.
8. In the years after events surrounding Columbine continued to unfold, many have been angry about the police "dropping the ball" in regards to Eric's "hit list" website. Should sites like this be protected by the First Amendment?
9. What do you make of the spread of the story of Cassie Bernall's martyrdom? Do you think that it spread because people needed to believe that something good could come out of such a horrible situation? Do you think that people saw Cassie's story as being something with gave people hope for the future of their children? Why do you think that Val Schnurr's story did not spread - particularly given the spread of Cassie's story?
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2. I definitely believe that Eric could have at least had a little bit more attention from the police. Eric's father definitely did a lot to protect his son's future, including not allowing the police to zero in on any of Eric's activities, whether they were legal or not. This was probably the easiest time to intercept Eric's future plans, but the police neglected to take the opportunity.
ReplyDelete3.Honestly both Dylan and Eric displayed multiple signs that allow us to conclude that neither were sane. The information Cullen gave describing psychopathy leads me to agree that Eric was definitely a psychopath. He showed no signs of remorse in any negative activity that he participated in, including the murder of his peers. As for Dylan, he did not seem to be at a murderously high level of depression. However, he was depressed enough to be mentally ill. Not all mentally ill people act on their every whim.
5. I think that Wayne Harris was being a total wad. He definitely should have paid exponentially more attention to his son's activities. I don't care if he was in the army and was used to being exposed to firearms and bombs, no reasonable parent allows their child to get away with messing with pipe bombs. Didn't he see "Potter Puppet Pals: The Mysterious Ticking Noise"? I think that Wayne was way too involved with protecting his son's future. If he had paid more attention to what his son was doing, maybe his son would still have a future.
7. I think that the NRA acted with an immense amount of disrespect. Although they weren't directly responsible for the shooting, it was definitely not appropriate for the association to meet and carry on almost all of their normal activities while barely acknowledging the shooting that occurred with the use of the subject of their meetings. The NRA should have taken the hint by the time the mayor said "we don't want you here."
9. Like the false story of Danny Rohrbough's heroic rescue of other students, Cassie Bernall's martyrdom was a story fabricated out of dramatizing and romanticizing the situation. I do think that people wanted to believe that something good could come out of a terrible tragedy, but I don't understand how a martyr for the christian faith is all that good. As for Val Schnurr, her story didn't catch on simply because she came after Cassie. Also, martyrs don't live to tell of their awesome, righteous moment that gave them their fame, and Val did.
5) I think he should have been more involved and strict after both of these occurrences, where numerous parents often would payed closer attention, but also Wayne Harris was dealing with an exceptionally manipulative psychopath, not a normal kid. Most people, especially parents, never suspect their children of being murderers at all.
ReplyDelete7) I think it was very ironic that the NRA was scheduled to meet in Denver immediately after the shooting, and it was also very inconsiderate that they would continue having the meeting without also being somewhat concerned that teenagers can easily obtain guns. Their decision to proceed the NRA conveys that an amount of people who are “pro-gun,” generally do not care about having harsher law enforcements to prevent further occurrences like Columbine.
9) I believe that Cassie’s story was exaggerated, due to after Columbine everyone wanted to learn of heroic and dramatic stories. Due to this, since Cassie’s story of martyrdom occurred first, it grew greatly, and that she died in result made her story even more dramatic and influential than Val’s account.
4) I believe that if people spend majority of their time being involved with violent media, than this can negatively affect them, but Eric and Dylan did not even spend much time playing violent video games showing that this did not influence or lead them to murder. Also many people have most likely listened to the same musicians and watched the same movie, but this has not led them to kill people.
2) I believe that the police should have been more involved with a case that involves possible murder, but were distracted probably by other cases at the time that appeared to be more important than two teenage boys’ dispute. They probably similar to many people would not have expected any student to go on a killing spree at their school, since before this did not occur frequently, even now people can name only a few occurrences that occurred throughout the United States.
6. The conspiracy theories held one mainly because of the decision to find someone to blame. The size of the attack seemed too large for two boys to undertake. I feel that one of the reasons Fuselier dismissed the theory was due to the fact that many of the large scale bombs failed - showing an amateur job.
ReplyDelete7. The NRA’s visit is tremendously disrespectful and sadly typical. The NRA also visited a town of a school shooting soon after the killing, showing a pattern in their conventions. They do have the right to convene, but it disrespects those who have lost their lives due to gun violence. The reason that they convene is to defend the wave of gun control that follows a shooting, though their tactics make more enemies than friends.
9. The martyrdom story resonated so well due to the religious climate of the states. The brave woman standing for her faith even to her death resonated very well with the Christian community. In addition, the story was great to publish and sell; it sold books and went well with the media. Val’s story did not fare so well as the public believed that she was not “good enough” as she had lived. She was also seen as “copying” Cassie’s story, even though it is possible that the girl in the story was Val and not Cassie.
4. Since the killings rocked society, it would seem that society decided to reevaluate itself. Society immediately went for the easiest things to blame, such as the Goth subculture and homosexuality. In addition, it was easy to find blame with the “modern culture.” If the killers had listened to Christian rock or gospel music, the public would either demonize these forms music or ignore the culture issue, as religion is rarely challenged.
3. From the information given about psychopaths, it is clearly evident that Eric Harris is a full psychopath. He admits to manipulating many people and having no remorse for any of his crimes. He clearly does have his sanity however; an insane or disturbed person would have not been able to work on a plan for a year or worm his or her way out of guilt. Dylan does demonstrate signs of mental illness however, even planning suicide before the killings. Dylan’s instability causes breakdowns when caught, with his mental illness being his weakness.
@Kelsea:It is true that the police would have had multiple cases to deal with and that the issue was not as pressing at the time. But after the pipe bombs were discovered, the police should have started investigating Harris and Dylan, even searching their rooms. It seems that many hints before could have been invaluable in saving lives.
ReplyDelete@Tali: While he should have done more with his son and paid closer attention after the pipe bombs, Wayne Harris was being fooled by a psychopath, a master at manipulation. Eric managed to worm his away through almost any situation and Wayne really had no chance against his son.
3. I do think that both of the boys are obviously troubled, but I would have to say that Eric is a psychopath while Dylan suffers from severe depression. Eric fantasizes about killing of the human race and having no sympathy for any of his actions, while Dylan is just looking for acceptance and love from his friends.
ReplyDelete5. Wayne Harris was not being a “protective parent.” Maybe Mr. Harris was concerned for his son’s future, and was scared for what could happen if other people found out about his son experimenting with explosives. And yes his father has dealt with things like bombs and guns because he was in the military, but his eighteen year old son should not being “playing” with stuff like that. A true protective parent would check his son into a place that they could help Eric with his odd behavior. If Mr. Harris had nipped this in the bud, Eric might have not been a murderer.
6. I think it was a combination of the two, both people not wanting to believe that two teenage kids could cause so much tragedy, and the people of Littleton wanted to see the killers get the full punishment they deserve. Nobody would like to realize that a couple of kids could plan out a massacre; it’s terrifying to believe that. Also I think the survivors and victims of Columbine wanted a sense a closer for what had happened to them.
7. Obviously the NRA’s appetence was way too soon and clearly insensitive. The mayor had even written them a letter saying “We don’t want you hear.” The convention boasted the second amendment and even rubbed it in the faces of the victims of Columbine. The convention was held only two weeks after the disaster and Littleton was still consumed in the tragedy of the event, and the NRA came anyway.
9. In the book it seems that a lot of people seeked religion in this time of sorrow. Cassie’s story gave the people hope, that not even the loss of 13 people, at the hands of two teenage monsters, could shake the spirit of the survivors of Columbine.
2. The police should have definitely intervened at this point. They were alerted that a boy was building bombs; what more information could you need? Something should have been done.
ReplyDeleteAt that point, I guess the police ignored the severity of the situation because Eric was a teenager. They probably just thought he was just a kid making mischief. However, this isn't a valid excuse. These things should always be investigated fully; that's what are tax dollars are paying them for.
3. By this point, the information presented in the book leads us to believe that both of the boys were mentally ill. Eric and Dylan were most definitely insane and unstable. Eric was a psychopath and Dylan has a very severe depression issue.
4. I think it is completely unfair to blame musicians and other artists for the inexcusable behavior of Eric and Dylan. I listen to "gangsta rap" and watch "violent movies," and you don't see me trying to shoot up a school or emulate "lyfe in da hood, yo." People just needed an excuse to explain away their vicious acts. The blame game makes everybody feel better.
5. Wayne Harris was very negligent when it came to dealing with his son. He was all about maintaining this crazy image and "keeping it all in the family." I can understand that no parent wants to face the fact their child is a delinquent, but by burying Eric's misdeeds, he ultimately did himself and his community a great disservice.
7. I maybe a bit biased after watching the "Bowling for Columbine," but I just thought their appearance in Denver was completely inappropriate. Why would you come to ADVOCATE guns in a community where THIRTEEN people were just shot to death by two crazed GUNMEN?! It makes absolutely no *choice word that starts with f* sense. I can respect that some people want to have guns in their homes, but the NRA's actions after the Columbine shooting were completely inexcusable.
Tali #5- I agree; his dad was a total wad...But was Youtube even out at that time?
ReplyDeleteDhruv #4- I don't think it was an "evaluation" by society. I think it was the media fueling the Columbine scare fire. Blaming the easy targets just gives them a greater reaction out of other sensationalists, and it increases readership and popularity of a news cast.
Kelsea #7- The NRA's appearance wasn't ironic at all. It was deliberate because they don't give a you-know-what about the victims. They just want to make sure that changes aren't made to the current gun laws.
ReplyDeleteKaitlyn #9- I totally agree. Cassie's death did bring hope (for lack of a more appropriate word)to many people, but I thought it was crazy how the churches were using her story as a means to increase membership. Some people are crazy opportunists.
ReplyDeleteTali #9- I thought it was interesting that Val's story didn't "catch" on. People are so weird, and it's funny how you said "martyrs don't live to tell of their awesome, righteous moment that gave them their fame, and Val did." I think this really affected how people felt about her story. What's so special about the girl who lived?
Alex #3 - I agree. I think that Eric, despite the airs he put on, was clearly not entirely okay in the noggin. And Dylan probably was not "mentally ill" as in insane, because he certainly thought about good and wrong a lot and distinguished them, but he was also having troubles that should have alerted those around him to the things he was considering.
ReplyDeleteKaitlyn #7 - I agree with you on this point. I think that the NRA made the wrong choice and ended up being rather insulting to the people who were killed and their families. It ended up making them look really bad and heartless.
Tali #5 - Total agreement. Wayne Harris was far, far too concerned with his son's reputation and not enough with a.) Eric's mental health, b.) the safety of those around him, and c.) the legitimate concerns that the Browns had.
Dhruv # 6 - I also felt like this highlighted the difference between Fuselier's expertise and Jeffco's idiocy. They're such morons. It's really a shame that Fuselier wasn't the one talking to the press. They could have used an intelligent representative.
Kelsea #5 - I think you're right--the fact that Cassie's story broke before Val's is what made the whole thing go down the way it did and gave Cassie's story a lot of the power it had. It's a shame, but people tend to think that the person who comes out with her story second is always the copycat.
#2: The police had an opportunity to at least conduct a thorough investigation of Eric’s background when the website was reported to them. However, they brushed it off. Had they not been so quick to dismiss the complaint, I believe the Columbine killing would not have occurred because the police would have kept a more watchful eye on Eric. The police probably ignored the complaint because they dismissed the site as a medium through which a typical teenager could vent his anger.
ReplyDelete#6: The local authorities wanted to believe a conspiracy theory because the shootings were so shocking and horrifying that they mentally needed some sort of acceptable explanation other than “Eric and Dylan just felt like it.” Neither they nor the community could accept the idea that two boys had gone on a killing spree without some sort of ulterior agenda. Furthermore, the community created a concrete scapegoat by tying the killings to some conspiracy theory.
#7: As opposed as I am to gun control, the fact that the NRA had planned the meeting in Denver weeks before the shooting gives them enough reason to be in Denver after Columbine. Some (including myself) would see it as callous for them to hold their meeting anyways, but I also understand that rescheduling on such short notice probably would have cost a considerable amount of money. The NRA, understandably, does not want to lose money over school shooting, so they hold the meeting anyway. Legally, nothing was stopping them as well; the only thing that really stood in their way was mostly the disapproval of anti-gun citizens, who the NRA does not care much for anyway. However, on a moral level, I do not approve of the NRA’s decision.
#8: I do not think sites like this should be protected under the 1st Amendment because they demonstrate a clear intent to bring physical harm (death).
#9: I am not surprised that Cassie’s story spread the way it did; stories of martyrdom are both moving and inspiring. With the all the horror Columbine incited, people looked anywhere for relief. The fact that Cassie proclaimed her belief in God shortly before death reaffirmed the people’s belief that there is still good among the adolescent community. I would not say people saw Cassie’s story as a sign of a good future for their children; simply because one teenager proclaimed her belief does not mean every teenager will all of a sudden will become a pious Evangelical. Val Schnurr’s story did not spread as quickly because many were convinced that her story was a publicity stunt. Denying such a widely accepted story of martyrdom would surely bring Val fame; this is what the majority of people thought as Val revealed the truth. As such, they refused to believe Val. Furthermore, by revealing the truth behind Cassie’s “martyrdom”, Val’s confession squashed a source of hope in the community.
2. Yes, because he had his entire mind set laid out there for all to see! He put bomb making instructions, hit lists, and so many messages filled with pure hatred. The reason why they didn’t do anything about it is because the first think that comes to adult’s minds when they read a teenager’s posts like this is, “Oh, they’re just over exaggerating. They don’t really mean that; they’d never go through with it. It’s all talk.”
ReplyDelete3. Definitely not. They are both show obvious signs of something mentally wrong with them. Eric is because of him being so violent and actually trying to go through with his malevolent plans. When it comes to if we have enough information on psychopathy to determine Eric a psychopath or not, I’m not 100% sure. Most of the symptoms that Cullen shares is matched with the ones of Eric, and yet I feel like it’s not completely enough for a full-fledged diagnosis. Don’t get me wrong, I do think he is mentally ill, but I don’t know quite yet of he’s a “psychopath”. Dylan shows not just depression, but the extreme of it. There are, too, some extreme infatuation and suicide thoughts. Now, one may find these things typical in a teenager, but to this extremity, it’s just not normal.
4. Yes, because how do you think people are going to react towards the filmmakers when there is a rumor going around that their movie had something to do with a couple of boys killing people? They will all but boycott the movie and/or filmmakers. Their name will become mud. Despite it giving the filmmakers a, sometimes undeserved, bad name, it is also is justified to be concerned about the effects violent things have upon teens, because it really does affect them. I’ve seen it firsthand. A friend of mine liked to play a very violent video game almost to the point where he was playing it all the time. His behavior became more clipped and angry all the time, and sometimes he’d get a little violent. Once his mom got rid of the game, yes he was mad for a while, but after time his behavior went back to normal. It does require a parent’s attention from time to time as well. If they think it’s too inappropriate for their child to watch, then don’t let them watch it. They won’t know how awful a movie, music, or game can be if the parent doesn’t see it for themselves.
5. Totally! I mean, it’s so stupid how he found the bomb after one of Eric’s big crime attempts that end with getting caught and yet he thought, “oh no. He’d never do that. He said he’d stop crime.” I just wanted to scream at him “The evidence is right in front of you! Why don’t you look more into what he’s doing?” If he had accepted that his son lies to him constantly, then maybe they would have stopped Eric way before he could get half way prepared to kill all the students. He was too protective and mostly trusting, is what I think. It’s understandable when a parent wants to protect their kid from getting a bad reputation for no reason, but when it’s a deserved reputation then you need to step back and let them learn from their mistakes. He just seemed like he was in denial the whole time about how Eric acted and who he really was. He rather pretends everything was okay than confront Eric’s behavior.
ReplyDelete9. At first I thought what a great story. How awesome is it that such a powerful testimony could have happened in the middle of this atrocity. Once I found out that it didn’t happen, I was greatly disappointed and almost mad because of how popular the story had become and everyone believed it like I did. People accepted it like I did: because it was a little bit of good that came out of the bad. It would give parents hope for their kid’s future, hoping that they will be just as unashamed of their beliefs, no matter what happens, throughout their lives just as Cassie was in her last moments. Val’s story didn’t spread because she survived. It is a much more exciting story when the great hero’s victory comes with her death.
#2. I feel that the police neglected the whole issue because I feel that they
ReplyDeletecould have prevented (I know that's a stretch) Columbine from even happening.
The police barely drew any attention to the pipe bomb. I also feel that Wayne,
Eric's father, prevented the police from further investigation because he was
more concerned about Eric's future. He did not want the police involved in their
lives because it may affect Eric's future and that would not be the ideal life
that Wayne wanted for his son.
#3. I think that Cullen gave amazing descriptions about what a psychopath is and
we can easily conclude that Eric was one. Dylan, on the other hand, although he
was clearly not sane, I feel that he was not a psychopath. Eric was indifferent
about all the things he did and got in trouble for. He simply did not care, but
Dylan did. He showed remorse and sorrow for certain things. He had emotions
while Eric seemed emotionLESS. Dylan was suffering from severe depression but
he was not a psychopath.
#5. Wayne definitely should have payed closer attention to his son's activities
after all the incidents. Honestly, he makes me mad that he was negligent in
keeping an eye on his son. Yes, he was in the army and yes he is way more
protective and controlling of Eric than most parents are of their kids but this
does not excuse his actions when he responded the way he did. He was way too
concerned about protecting his son's future and he was blind to Eric's actions
and what they could lead to.
#7. The NRA arriving in Denver so soon after the attack was extremely
inappropriate. This shows extreme disrespect for the victims of Columbine. The
mayer said that he did not want them there and the NRA should have adhered to
their wishes. What they did was insensitive and almost heartless. I can't
imagine what the victims were feeling whenever the NRA came. It's ridiculous how
the NRA could do this.
#9. Cassie's martyrdom was simply people trying to pull something good out of a
terrible tragedy. From all of the sadness, they wanted something good to come
out of it because it was so saddening. It gave people something to distract
themselves from the horror of Columbine. Val's story did not spread because this
was just another story of bad news that the people simply did not want to hear.
They did not want to believe that what had given them hope was not true.
@Kelsea #7. Like Alexandra said, the NRA's appearance was not ironic. They just
simply did not care and were insensitive about the situation. They wanted to go
on as planned and wanted to make sure that people knew that the gun laws were
not to blame.
@Dhruv #4. I agree completely because that's just the way people are. We want
something to blame for a horrible tragedy because we cannot believe that these
people were just insane. We want something to blame so we feel better about our
society and feel that their is hope for the society.
@Alexandra#7. I feel that Bowling for Columbine may have influenced me a bit too
with what Michael Moore presented the NRA to be.
@Alexandra#5. I completely agree with the fact that Wayne wanted to "Keep it all
in the family." Also, you are completely right about how parents never want to
face the fact that their child is a problem. No parent ever wants to go through
that!
@Dhruv#6. I agree with you because it's the same sense of the people wanting
someone to blame and how they just could not believe that just two teenage boys
could pull all of this off.
Dhurv #6 I agree. If it was a conspiracy theory, surely the bombs would have been built better to where they would have actually worked. Plus people wanted someone that was still alive to blame, otherwise there would have been nothing they could do about the dead killers. Eric and Dylan were already dead so the search began to find the "third shooter".
ReplyDeleteKelsea #2 True, Eric and Dylan did not completely envelope themselves with violent things enough to lead them to murder, but it does still effect you in a negative way. Everyone's different, so people deal with these things differently too. Sometimes people take them more intensely than others.
Kaitlyn #7 This action was completely callous of them. They should have at least waited a little longer to hold their comments to themselves. People need time to process things and heal. This was like laughing in their face.
Richie #8 Yeah, I was a little uneasy on how to answer this question, but you hit the nail on the head. I too think it shouldn't apply to things that would cause a least physical harm on a person. If it did state that it would protect it even if it posed a danger, then it might be a leading cause of murder, wouldn't it?
Alexandra #2 Yeah! when you are being paid and their are possibly lives at stake, why wouldn't you do your absolute best to investigate the situation? Sure it's a kid saying these things, but then again, it's the internet and most of the time nothing and no one is as they seem. it could have been a serious adult saying the threats while posing as a teen for all they knew.
2. Yes, the police completely ignored a blatant issue. A bomb threat should not be taken lightly in any case, but especially one where the culprit was posted instructions, targets, and detailed recounts of detonation. I guess the police just saw it a useless ranting, as many teenagers do; all talk, no show; and yet, ironically, he showed them.
ReplyDelete3. Dylan is obviously sane, just clinically depressed. He just needs help and support, and even some training to deal with his false hopes, that when brought to failure, cause a deeper depression. Eric is insane, and an obvious psychopath; he purposefully manipulates, lies, and puts on a show for whomever is an obstacle to his unwavering plan.
5. Of course, Wayne should have payed much more attentions to his son's misdeeds! He found a bomb. Even the shrink and jail time had absolutely no effect on Eric's ideas and plans. He was way too protective, which is understandable as an army man, but still. Wayne should have payed more attention to the downward spiral of Eric: petty vandalism, petty theft, robbery, bomb making, and finally death threats.
6. The people need an explanation. When a massive incident such as Columbine transpires with no explanation, the people need one to console themselves and others. A conspiracy is an easy fallback, the kids were obviously conspiring against the school, friends, etc. In foresight, of course one can never imagine two teenagers creating a school mass murder, that includes shooting and bombing. But in hindsight, it makes perfect sense, especially from Eric, and his understandably insane thinking.
7. The NRA has no reason to come to The epicenter of a school shooting to preach about pro-gun-ness. Any other time would have been better. To any person with no opinion of the NRA, they seem like jerks for doing what they did.
Tali #2 - I agree, the police blew the easiest opportunity to stop a delinquent from attacking his high school. However, I would not say that Wayne was protecting his son with the aura of hiding his misdeeds. I'd say he was more ignorant and just wanted a nice, safe and clean future for his son.
ReplyDeleteKelsea #7 - That is a rather hasty generalization there, accusing the NRA. True, they continued on with the rally despite Columbine, but it was prescheduled. They do care, they just feel as if it has nothing to do with them. Remember, the pro-gun people are in support of adult possession, not child possession.
Dhruv #6 - You do make a valid point, the unexploded bombs wreak with noviceness. That would lead an expert to believe other possibilities besides a conspiracy.
Alexandra #3 - I disagree with calling Dylan insane, not Eric, of course. Dylan was just a depressed person. He may have created his own world of "zombies" and the like, but he did not want to exterminate them. He just needed support and guidance, something he lacked throughout his depressive adolescence.
Richie #8 - Your belief is credible, however, the problem is that most of those websites are run by people of all talk and no action. Eric was an exception, but it does not mean every single hate website is potentially harmful.
2. They felt as though it wasn’t that important probably. Just some random teenager thinking up a wild plan that probably wouldn’t work. This just seemed like an empty threat to some people and thought nothing would happen from it.
ReplyDelete3. I do believe that Dylan was sane. However I think Eric was not. Dylan was just a depressed teenager probably concerned about not getting all the girls he wanted and being slightly un-cool, almost normal things to be really depressed about if he doesn’t know how to cope well. However I believe Eric was a psychopath he was very popular and relatively a cool guy and had no reason to do this.
4. I do believe that media does a HUGE injustice to filmmakers and musicians. They play their music or make their own movies the way they want to. They don’t make their songs or movie motivate kids to murder people. They don’t advertise that killing is cool. It was the killers choices before the music listening or the movie watching that caused them to kill. There should be no concern on the music or movies teenagers listen to or watch, music doesn’t make killers, killers do.
8. I believe these sites should be protected by the first amendment. They can say whatever they want to, I don’t care, but I believe that if someone is becoming serious and threatening people we should keep a close eye on them. There’s nothing against the law by keeping the person under watch. All they had to do was to watch him instead of doing nothing about it because its “protected by the first amendment.” I know its too late now, but for the future we should probably do that.
5. I think Eric’s dad was simply acting like a protective parent. No one wants their kid in trouble and he thought he could handle it without causing to much harm to anyone. Too bad he was wrong… very wrong. Many of you would do the same for your son. You would just try to talk to him and get him to explain his-self before going to authorities and such.
Kelsea #4- I definitely agree on your stance that Dylan and Eric were not influenced by violent video games to attack their school. There are plenty of people that play violent video games and do not react the way that Dylan and Eric did. I believe that Eric’s psychopathy had a much larger impact on their decision to shoot up Columbine.
ReplyDeleteDhruv #9- You brought up some points that I did not realize before. It never occurred to me that Cassie could have been confused with Val. I also forgot about the large proportion of religious people and how they might have wanted to believe a story of a heroic martyrdom. The saddest fact is that it did, in fact, make a “good story.”
Dhruv @ me- While I agree that Eric was a very efficient manipulator, a parent does need to know when to trust and when not to trust their child. They need to know where to draw the line, and they need to know when they’re close to crossing it. As most parents know, even the most accomplished liar slips up from time to time, and when they do it is quite obvious. Much to a child’s dismay, some parents call their children out when they aren’t actually lying. If Wayne had done this when Eric seemed even the slightest bit suspicious, I think the whole incident could have been avoided.
Kaitlyn #5- I agree that Mr. Harris was trying to protect his son, but he was not being careful enough. He certainly should have seen this as a sign as for what’s to come. I do not understand why Wayne thought that the discipline that he set in place would be effective. If he had implemented real consequences, I certainly agree that Eric would not be a murderer.
Kaitlyn #7- I totally support your assertion that the NRA’s appearance was totally insensitive. Their convention was held way too soon after the tragedy, and the obvious use of guns in the attack did not mesh well with the public at the moment. In short, I think that the NRA should have just chilled out for awhile and reconvened at a more appropriate time.
Tobs- 2 I agree completely with your second part about where they thought he was just all show. But about your first part blaming the police I think they thought it was just nothing to be worried about and nothing they could really do about it except watch him closely.
ReplyDeleteElana 3- I think Dylan was completely sane, just looking for a way to fit in. Eric was that way. Dylan was depressed but not as seriously depressed as some people can be. He just wanted to be a normal teenage boy.
Shelby 5- Yes the bomb was there but like most parents he maybe was trying to figure it out on his own without getting his son into trouble. He could have thought it was just a little prank he wanted to do or something not as serious. We can’t blame his dad for this though, but he surely could have prevented it like you said.
Richie 6- Exactly! Media and everyone just wants some story that can make them fall asleep at night. However this does not help anything or anyone what so ever. I agree completely that they used conspiracy as a scapegoat just so people could go to bed easy…
Alex 3- I agree that eric was insane, but I don’t know how far I’d go to say that Dylan was severely depressed. Surely he was depressed and wasn’t coping well, but he just wanted to be a normal kid. And Eric saw that, manipulated Dylan’s depression and turned it into hatred on the world. That’s why I think only Eric was a psychopath, a legitimate one that is.
2. I think that the police should have been more involved. When such serious plans are laid out for the public someone has to know that its a bit of a red flag. If the police had stepped in they may have delayed, lessened the severity, or even prevented Columbine from ever taking place. Some of the blame though should be placed on Eric's father in particular, he knew of some of the things Eric was doing, illegal or not, and didn't step in like a father-figure should. I think because the police were naive they didn't take the plans seriously; Eric was just a teenager… how could he really do this kind of destruction.
ReplyDelete3. I believe that Eric was a psychopath, I think that is kind of universally agreed. Eric had no care for human life, and showed signs of true psychopathic behavior. Dylan I also agree that he was depressed. I think that a lot of things played into that; not getting the girl he wanted, feeling alone, having fewer friends than some, all normal high school drama. But I also believe that Dylan is mentally ill. I think that anyone who goes out and attempts to kill so many people has something wrong with their brain. If it was normal to do such a thing, majority of people would be doing it. Dylan was depressed no donut and also had something chemically out of balance in order for him to commit such acts.
5. It would be great to think that Wayne Harris should have done more to stop Eric early, because its nice to have someone to blame this on. But fact of the matter is parents don't ever suspect their children of being murderers and law-breaking citizens until they see it. Although Eric had a bit of a past with the police, ultimately it was not his father's fault. I do however believe that if his parents had been more protective, more aware they may have been able to get Eric help, but like any parent they were naive.
9. Everyone wants the silver lining on their cloud. In a situation, like Columbine, people don't take the time to know the facts and think for themselves they fall for whatever the media feeds them; as is true is so many situations, not just Columbine. So for someone to have "died for their faith" is intriguing, it sounds heroic, and somehow makes it seem like good resulted in the end. Although all in all, she still died so how that is looked at as such a powerful thing I'm not sure. Val lived on, so her story didn't seem as dramatic. Also because her story came out after Cassie's it seemed as though she was more so looking for attention than anything else.
7. Yes, the NRA had the right to be there. Because the conference was scheduled ahead of time I don't think it was wrong of the NRA to be there. The parents did ask them not to come, and I think the NRA could have approached the situation differently, more peaceably, but because the conference had been scheduled in advance it was not as big a deal as people were making it. In Bowling for Columbine, however, when the NRA showed up in the same town that a little boy had shot a little girl at school, that was inappropriate on every level. As long as the conference was scheduled before hand I think it is fine.
Alden #2) I agree, I think if the police had really seen any threat in what he was doing they would have taken action. But they figured he was just a teenage boy who wouldn't do anything.
ReplyDeleteTobs #7) I disagree, I think that if the NRA had already planned to come to the city well ahead of time then it was not their fault that the shooting happened days before. But I do think the NRA could have treated it differently as to not sound so harsh about their coming there.
Tobs #3) I again disagree, I believe that Dylan was not entirely sane. He was obviously depressed but I don't think someone who is depressed goes on a mission to kill other people, usually they only take their own life if that. I do believe their is reason to believe him not sane.
Shleby F #5) I don't agree, I think that because he is his father he sees the situation differently than me and you. Wayne Harris although the evidence was right below him could have suspected something, I think that a closer eye on his boy from a young age would have done better for everyone. I think its a stretch to ask a parent to see their child as a potential threat to humanity.
Tali #9) I agree on every level Tali, I don't understand how a martyr is such a great thing and also that Val's didn't have such an impact because it was after everyone had already clung on to Cassie's story, which wasn't even true.
#2 In today's society, such a website would be investigated under these circumstances. when a high school student had bomb instructions and threats in print on a website, there needs to be more interest from authorities. They may have been able to stop the shooting had thye investigated further and possibly found the pipe bombs.
ReplyDelete#4 Kids will be kids. There will always be violent films and video games as well as music of questionable moral value. Nobody can stop teens from being exposed to these things, so instances such as columbine have no reason to be linked to these forms of entertainment. If we did associate the two, that would mean kids everywhere would be plotting their own school shootings and bombings.
#5 we say now that Wayne definitely should have done more about the pipe bomb, but we have to think like a father would, with no knowledge that his son would end up killing over a dozen people. Sure, he should have sought help, though probably not from the police, for his son.
#7 The visit to Denver by the NRA was a trip planned months ahead of the shooting. Plus, if a foundation based on a pro-gun platform decides to cancel because of a shooting, what kind of message would that send out about their association?
#8 Like it or not, hate speech is protected by the constitution. However, there is a fine line between hate speech and legitimate death threats. It is definitely up to the discretion of the police to decide whether further action needs to be taken in terms of investigation. In Eric’s case, the police definitely should have investigated further due to his history.
2. Eric's plans definitely deserved more attention than they were given. With a little more investigating they could of discovered the evidence of actual bombs. It was probably passed over as an angry teen rant and not taken seriously.
ReplyDelete4. Absolutely, the media falsely names blame on filmmakers and musicians becuase it is a simple and easy answer for the ignorant public. T.v. and music dramatized and shaped themselves for the public and everyone interprets them too literally. They do not generate evil thoughts, your child does, and uses these things to express the inner evil he has already conjured.
5. Wayne punished him for the locker incident as a concerned parent and Wayne forgot the pipe bombs as a fearful parent. Unruly behavior...ok fine, that is a typical male teenager, but criminal habits were a greater priority for his father. Out of nerves for the idea of his son's motives, Wayne withheld his bomb with intentions of ridding the idea along with the existence. He was a coward from the fear of admitting his son's presumable future.
7. The NRA had a money verses humanity choice and they chose money. Bussiness wise, it was wise not to waste a pre-planned rally. Yet, they left themselves in the position of being patronized for coming under the circumstances. Personally, I am surprised they would chose to dismiss conditions for a grieving city and proceed with a silly gun rally.Basically, they are jerks, but what can you do?
9. Cassie Bernall's story was so widely spread and accepted because it gave believers evidence that faith was still capable in a time of life or death. Her story gave hope of passion behind faith, but I do not think it makes a statement for the future children. Val Schnurr's story was not spread because she was still alive, and clearly as history loves to point out, people who are dead are more important than the ones still alive. Therefore she was left doubted and ridiculed for being a "copy cat" even though Cassie's story was actually her story...and she lived! Why do people reject the happy ending?
Alex #3 I agree with you in terms of Eric definitely being at least a mild psychopath (if there is such a thing), however i am not sure whether or not i agree with Dylan being severely depressed. Sure, he was an outcast and found acceptance with Eric, yet he was also just like thousands of other kids just like him.
ReplyDeleteReba #7 You are absolutely right. The NRA had this right and they were not about to cancel just because of this event. I do also agree with you in terms of the fact that they should have gone about it slightly different.
Alden #5 I do agree that no father wants to see their son get into trouble, however, Eric did have a history with his hit list and pipe bombs, so a red flag should have gone up in Wayne's head telling him he needs to do something... anything.
Tobi #2. I definitely agree with you in that a bomb threat (with instructions on the fabrication and use) should never be taken lightly, especially in Eric’s case, as he had a record with questionable behavior.
Alexandra #4 You are so right!!! EVERY teenager is exposed to this type of stuff in some way. No parent or adult has any right to accuse “Marilyn Manson” of being the cause of such an awful shooting. The blame can’t be traced to something that is experienced by every single high school student.
2. If cops had really followed up on the website they could have investigated further into Eric’s situation and possibly realized what was going on. I think bomb threats should not be taken lightly at all. I think the cops were too busy to pay attention to Internet threats. But they sure did learn their lesson.
ReplyDelete3. I think Eric is definitely insane. He is a psychopath. He shows symptoms of being one and has crazy actions. Dylan on the other hand is more depressed and maybe it caused him to become mentally ill.
4. I think musicians and filmmakers play a small part to deranged killers. But the chances of that are so slim. Many people enjoy those types of things and never grow up hurting a fly let alone a human being. Parents should be more aware of their children's thoughts and actions more though.
5. Of course he should have been paying more attention to his son after the pipe bomb and locker incident. Children do not just make bombs everyday. Everything adds up to signs of something wrong! He was far too worried with his son’s future and could not accept the fact that there was something wrong. dumb.
8. Although freedom of speech is protected by the first amendment I think that when the speech involves killing it should at least be investigated because it is definitely not worth the risk as they later found out.
Austin #2 – You mention how in today’s society the website would of brought about further investigation and it should of then too. But, today’s society is raised off of the event and without its existence they wouldn’t know to be aware of such things. Meaning, we can not blame them for not predicting such a massacre.
ReplyDeleteReba #5 – It is a good point to say that most parents don’t suspect there spawn to be a psychotic criminal, but I feel like his father should have taken more responsibility for his little rebel. He dismissed his son’s trashy history and forgot to teach prevention of the bad ways.
Alden #4 – I agree with the idea of the killer conjuring his ideas way before the relatable movies and music choices. Artists such as musicians and filmmakers create things as a healthy outlet for their emotions or entertainment, they do not create to posses or hypnotize. Let’s get real America.
Tobi #7 – Your answer is short and simple and a perfect summary. The NRA was heartless and just “a jerk” for intruding in a time of deep sorrow. Rescheduling would have been the logical, HUMANE alternative.
Elana #3 – You compared Dylan and Eric very well upon their emotional reactions. Eric’s lack of empathy labeled him psychotic and Dylan’s overall sensitivity labeled him depressed. It was a clear distinction.
2. The discovery of the pipe bomb diagrams on Eric’s website was disturbing, to say the least. In 1997 however, the whole concept of the internet was a rather novel one. First adopters are typically a little bit on the more fanatical side, but in the early days of the internet, the concept of cyber-bullying and cyber terror was unusual. The information was probably not followed up on seeing as the information was probably seen as invalid or an unreliable source.
ReplyDelete4. The immediate psychological reaction to such a unprecedented tragedy is to seek out the cause. In this case, word soon leaked out that Eric and Dylan had supposedly been members of the trench coat mafia and had been heavily influenced by artists such as Marylin Manson and Nine Inch Nails. All of this was, to say the least, a lie. The media response to these events was so overblown that many of these artists suffered unduly due to the slanderous remarks of the media. The evaluation of the influence of violent media on children is something that does need to be evaluated on a case by case basis. Many play violent games, but it is only the rare few who are actually affected by it.
2. Eric’s website illustrated his plans and also showed that he was mentally not okay. He was planning to kill a lot of people and I think if the police paid more attention to the website it might have been stopped. I think they probably just attributed what he was saying to normal teenage feelings of depression and anger at authority and questioning life.
ReplyDelete4. I do think it is an injustice to artists when people link them to killers. People control their own actions so it’s not fair to say that a particular song or movie made someone go murder another person. The artist themselves did not go out and commit the crime so why should they be blamed for it. However, I do think that at times violent films and music may have an impact because they may make people think that it is okay to do something like that but at the end of the day, unless they are mentally unstable, people control their own actions.
7. I think the NRA should definitely have not come to Denver. After a school shoting and many innocent children being killed, it was definitely in bad taste to have a gun convention. Even though it was planned ahead of time, out of respect they should have just changed the venue. The fact that they even took out the part of acknowledging the youngest and oldest people at the convention makes me think that they knew something was wrong with having the convention there even though they claimed it was fine.
8. I think that you should be allowed to have freedom of speech but not at the expense of others lives. If someone is talking in their blog about how much they want to kill someone, that shouldn’t be protected by the First Amendment. If they act on their words, then people would be even more upset that someone was murdered when it could have been prevented. I feel like laws protecting people’s lives should be more important than being able to say whatever you want.
9. I think Cassie’s story spread just because people were looking for something that gave them hope in such a tragic event. Just like the way Danny’s story spread, they wanted to believe that she didn’t die without a purpose. Her standing up for her beliefs probably did make other Christian parents hopeful that their children could one day have the same kind of faith that she had. Val Schnurr’s story probably did not spread as much as Cassie’s because people probably did feel like she was just copying Cassie’s story. Also they thought Cassie died standing up for her religion and as bad as it is, they might have felt that Val’s story was just not as important.
5.If there is anybody most guilty of negligence in the days leading up to Columbine it would have to be Wayne Harris. The multiple warning signs displayed over time should have added up to a more major problem when looked at from a grand perspective, but then again, hindsight is 20/20. In the case of the Harrises however, there is still some cause to believe that they should have taken some action
ReplyDelete6. I wouldn’t say so much that the local authorities clung to the conspiracy theory but rather that the sheriff alone clung to the conspiracy theory. This is yet another example of the automatic human response to a tragedy to cast the perpetrators as somebody other than us. It was rather difficult to believe that two teenage boys had come up with the whole concept of a mass murder.
8. Each website is entitled to its own freedoms, but to some extent each website must be worked with on a case by case basis. In the case of websites such as those that openly display intent to perpetrate mass murder or violence against a group or anybody in general, the sites are clearly in violation of conspiracy to commit murder. (Yes, Raj, feel free to rip that to shreds)
Tali 3- I completely agree that they both showed signs of psychopathic behavior. At first I thought that Dylan was just a victim of Eric’s manipulation but as I read more I realized that even if he wasn’t as crazy as Eric he still had his own problems especially with his depression and how he felt about himself.
ReplyDeleteDhruv 6- I agree that the conspiracy theories probably held on because no one could believe that two teenagers could have done that on their own and also I think that at the time people were really unwilling to accept the truth because they needed a better explanation that just two teenagers randomly killing whoever they wanted to kill.
Alex 7- I might also be biased also but I definitely felt the same way! It was just ridiculous for them to hold a gun convention in the same place where multiple people were killed by guns. I think it just comes of very disrespectful and insensitive.
Elana 5- I disagree because I think that Wayne actually did a lot. He noticed that something was wrong and he even wanted him to get help psychologically. I don’t think he ignored his son’s activities but I do think that Eric was really manipulative and able to explain his way out of a lot. I don’t think he was being overprotective I think he genuinely wanted his son to get help while still not jeopardizing his future. Maybe after the pipe bomb incident he should have been stricter but I think he tried to help a lot.
Alden 8- I definitely agree that if something is suspicious they should keep an eye on it instead of completely disregarding it because you are allowed to say whatever you want. You can still respect people’s First Amendment rights without completely disregarding the safety of others and instead of just ignoring it they could at least start by monitoring it.
2) I definitely think that it was a warning flag when the police found Eric's webstie. However, along with what happens often today, like with the VA Tech killer, these types of warnings are overlooked. I don't think it's an intentional effort by the police to ignore the hate site or journals, but the thing is, there are so many people who exhibit warning signs and don't act on their feelings of hate and anger. To be realistic, there is essentially no way to distinguish which people will snap and act, so therefore it would be impossible to prevent every act of premeditated violence. In this case especially, Eric seemed like a normal enough kid, so no one really expected him to act on his thoughts, and there was no way to know for sure that he would or would not.
ReplyDelete7) As i said in class today, I liken the whole "NRA rally two weeks after Columbine" thing to the controversey over the Muslim Center near Ground Zero. I belive that the NRA had every right to fufill the planned rally that had been scheduled; however, the fact that they decided to continue on with it despite the nature of the tragedy at Columbine may have been in poor taste.
8) The First Amendment, like we read today, is a garunteed right given to everyone, even if some people choose to use that right to spread hate towards others. Hate speech is protected by the first amendment, no matter how many people it may offend. People who run the websites about how the police dropped the ball at columbine have a certain degree of justification and certainly have the right to say what they feel, but I would say that they need to consider the events as they happened and not through hindsight and maybe they could give the police a bit more credit for having to deal with such a tough situation.
2. After Erics website was reported to the police, I was very shocked to hear that there was no action taken by the police themselves after they discovered a teenage boys BOMB website with STEP BY STEP instructions on how to make them. Thats just ridiculous. The police seemed to have ignored it because he was a teenager, but age should nto play a factor in police attention when it comes to bombs and terrorist-like activities.
ReplyDelete3. After reading as far as I have in Columbine, i can make the assumption that Dylan Klebold was sane. The only emotional problems he had were typical high school drama problems such as not getting the girl he wanted, etc. He seemed to have been peer pressured into doing all the evil things by Eric. Eric Harris, on the other hand, seems to be a psychopath. He was a typical kid with lots of friends and was relatively outgoing, showing that he had no real motive for his massacre.
4. I believe the media really mamkes the filmmakers and musicians that appealed to killers look horrible. It was not their fault that the killers happened to appreciate their work like a lot of people; it is not as if they are promoting violence and murders. The musicians and filmmakers were only trying to provide entertainment, not trying to make people want to start killing. Parents also need to relax; films, video games, music, and other forms of entertainment are not what make killers nowadays, it is themselves.
5. Wayne Harris' reaction to his sons pipe bomb was, in my opinion, handled completely incorrectly. No parent should be okay with the fact that their son is assembling pipe bombs, even if they are trying to protect their future. Wayne Harris should have talked to his son or even gotten some outside help instead of worrying about his sons future or his ego.
7. The NRA's arrival in Denver a mere 2 weeks after the shootings was ethically very wrong. The fact that the NRA showed up in a place where a tragedy involving guns had just happened shows that they did not have any sympathy for the families that were affected by the tragedy, and their premature arrival just made it worse. When the mayor warned them that they were not wanted, they blatantly ignore the mayor and came anyway, showing their lack of respect for the city and community as a whole.
9)To be honest, before i read this section, i believed that the story about Cassie Bernall's matyrdom was true. I thought it was brave of her to stand up for her faith and overall showed strength in her. Finding out that it didn't actually happen, i was pretty disappointed. I think that the story spread so well and people clung to it because it was a corageous act, not one that most would expect from a teenager. It gave people hope to know that in the face of death, Cassie had enough faith to die for her beliefs, and the evangelical pastors wasted no time capitalizing on that. As for Val Schnurr's story, it seems that is was in the shadow of Cassie's martyrdom and because Val lived to tell the story, it had less of an effect on the people, which is sad.
ReplyDelete6) Even after a conspiracy theory was ruled out as the cause for the shooting, the local authorities still held on to the idea, mainly in an attempt to have 'someone' to blame.' I think the fact that they realized that if the original plans for the attack had gone through the death toll would have been unimaginable made it much harder for people to believe that it was only the two highschool boys behind the opperation. No one wants to think that their paper boy or pizza guy could be capable of such a terrible thing.
1. The chapter, “Jesus Jesus Jesus,” is very objective. It just states the facts; Cullen does not touch upon at all what he felt about the religious events after Columbine. It includes very touching parts, but also very ironic parts, leaving the audience and readers to form their own opinions of the religious movement in Littleton. If by respectful, one means it doesn’t belittle the religious ideals, then, yes, this chapter is respectful. It leaves room for the audience to analyze the religious happenings and the reactions of the mourners. Readers aren’t influenced at all by the facts of this, whatever position they take isn’t because Cullen gave them the idea.
ReplyDelete2. Eric’s webpage is just him bragging about his escapades and voicing his opinions. His opinions, no matter how deranged, do not provide enough evidence to even suggest what would happen later on. Many people have their own tool to voice violent opinions so that they will not have to act on them. When he talked about his explosives, he always used a cocky attitude, leading most readers to not believe him. Not many would believe that such a delinquent would be able to create something that could match the power of dynamite. Even the ingredient list really didn’t prove anything. Any person could just copy and paste bomb ingredients. As the deputy wrote, “possible criminal mischiefs,” this website just could be the result of an angry teen who just wanted to voice his fantasies, not his reality.
3. The first instinct of anyone who has studied these boys is that both were mentally ill. Eric was so hateful; he wanted to hate so much that he mentioned it at every turn. Dylan craved love; he craved it so much that he became delusional. Both were angry. I feel that mysteries at this point are still left. We do not actually know the extent of Dylan’s depression, and at this point we don’t even know how it could turn to homicide. “Dylan’s journal read like that of a boy on the road to suicide, not homicide.” Eric according to definition appears a psychopath, but not of random people. It seems that he would be more inclined to rid the world of useless people, which does not mean killing indiscriminately. Perhaps, both are mentally ill, but it seems that they needed something else, a stimulus or a chain reaction, to kill someone else.
ReplyDelete4. People always say that the violent TV shows, movies and music always influence our kids to be more violent. However, it is no direct correlation between the two ideas. One could argue that because Charles Manson was influenced by the Beatles, the Beatles are obviously one of the most mentally deranging bands in the world. I, personally, hate when the public assumes that violent music makes violent people. Only in extreme cases would it need the attention of an adult.
5. No parent wants to accept that his/her son is dangerous. Wayne Harris wanted to believe that Eric was a good boy. That is why he readily accepted Eric’s shoddy excuse. A single promise to appease his father, Eric knew how to manipulate, and his parents, of course, ate it all up.
Tali #2 - A better place to intercept them would have been after their break in of the van. Then they actually had a criminal record. Words mean much less than actual actions. Even with Eric’s father’s help, police definitely should’ve acted then. I don’t believe that the police could do anything about Eric’s website.
ReplyDeleteTali #3 - Agreed, both Eric and Dylan looked mentally ill, and each showed the textbook definition of their respective illnesses, psychopathy and depression. However, it was mentioned that psychopaths kill as they see fit, and if Eric hated inferiors, why wouldn’t he kill inferiors, primarily those on his list? That struck me as odd.
Tali #5 - I find your opinion on Wayne Harris a little too harsh. How was he to know that his child actually intended to harm someone with bombs? Yes, there were warning signs, but would you want to admit to yourself that you child was a psychopath? It’s not that he was used to bombs and firearms; he didn’t want Eric having them either. He just denied that Eric was being dangerous with them.
Kaitlyn #5 - I think Wayne sending Eric to a psychiatrist was his attempt to check Eric’s odd behavior. It was just that Eric was so good at spinning people along; his psychiatrist didn’t notice anything too abnormal. This was Eric’s specialty, to trick others. He used it to his advantage so that not even his own dad would figure out his plans.
Alexandra #2 - The police had evidence that a boy “could” be building a bomb. They had no proof whatsoever. It’s not like they had witnesses. Police can’t act upon a website that may or may not be real.
Tali 9. I would totally agree with you Tali. Her story was spun into a very dramatic and heroic story of a teenage martyr. I do think the people of Littleton wanted something good to come out of the disaster.
ReplyDeleteKelsea 7. Yes I do think the appearance of the NRA was very rude and not needed. Even though it was scheduled ways in advance they could have been more sensitive to the situation at hand.
Alex 3 - I agree. I think that Eric clearly not okay. And Dylan probably was just depressed because he could not find any love in his life, but in my opinion I think he made that stuff up in his head.
Richard 2. I agree the police could have taken a lot more responsibility. Maybe if they had taken more action 13 people would still be alive today. I think throughout the whole tragedy the police did not live up to their duties.
Shelby 4. I would agree with you violent media does not make a person a psychopath. They are mentally ill for so many other important factors and the media wanted someone to blame.
Arvin-#2 Bascially I'll just extend my answer and say that if the police responded to every statement of hate or threat or even mentions to bombs or weapons and acted on it, then that would be all they ever had time to do. Sure i totally agree that they should've kept a closer eye out after that incident, but in actuality there was no one of knowing for sure what Eric would or wouldn't do, and you can't lock someone up just for talking about crimes they would like to committ, by the 1st amendment.
ReplyDeleteDhruv-#3 Based on the facts, i agree that eric shows signs of psychopathy, the whole manipulating and not showing remorse thing. and also you make the good point that dylan, although severely depressed, was not a psycopath, but merely seduced into following one.
Alex-#4 haha alex first off i love you and second i totally agree with you :) everyone is exposed to violent things in life, whether it be movies or tv or music etc. The difference is that not everyone acts on the influence of these outlets. If people actually wanted to blame these forms of entertainment, we would all be stuck listeneing to RadioDisney and watching G-rated movies forever because some unstable people reacted to what they heard/saw. that's pretty ridiculous
Richie #8- Bro, as much as i agree that these types of sites are ridiculous and offensive, i have to say that i think they should be protected under the 1st amendment. Speech doen't necessarily determine actions; I can say that i would love to go hurt/kill someone i really hate and that im going to do it, (which i so do not so don't anyone take this seriously please) but that doesn't mean that i actually will. If these types of sites are taken out of protection, then so should every other site that posts ideas that may be offensive to some people. speech is speech, and the 1st amendment protects it no matter how messed up it is...
ReplyDeleteAlden #5- I agree with you mostly on the fact that Eric's dad was protecting his son. I would say too that he was focused so much on Eric's bright future, he turned a blind eye to the messed up stuff in his present at that time. No one wants to believe their son is a killer, and as I've said before, it's not totally out of the ordinary for teenage boys to mess around blowing stuff up.
Kelbie #2 I agree with your ideas and thoughts about how there are normally a lot of people who do these kinds of things and never go on violent outbreaks. However, I personally still believe that the police did not do enough and could potentially have stopped this from happening.
ReplyDeleteTali #3 I disagree with you slightly on this one. I do believe that Eric was not sane, however Dylan did not seem to be as mentally unstable as Eric to me. He only had problems with relationships but no real mental disorders.
Xander #5 I agree with you fully. Wayne Harris did not do the right thing after he found his sons pipe bomb, causing some people to ultimately blame him for Eric's behavior.
Kelsea #4 I agree with you about how a lot of other people are able to listen to the same music and watch the same movies, however do not end up killing thirteen people at their high school. It just shows that the musicians and filmmakers can not be blamed.
Eva #2 I fully agree with you on this one. if the police had actually put a little effort into their investigations, they may have found some new clues and prevented the tragedy from occurring.
Kaitlyn, #6: Although I agree that the people of Littleton refused to accept that two teenagers could plan such a tragedy, I do not believe that a conspiracy theory would cause the community members to believe that Eric and Dylan received punishment for their actions. If anything, by committing suicide, the boys robbed the community of a clear explanation of their (the boys') motivation for the killing.
ReplyDeleteAlexandra, #4: I do not think it is fair to completely the ignore the influences of violent media on its viewers. I do believe violent media desensitizes its viewers just a small bit; however, in Eric's case, his violence and aggression were due to his psychopathy, not due to the media.
Kelsea, #5: I also believe that Wayne, like many others, was duped by Eric into believing that Eric was not doing anything wrong. Eric speaks of multiple “close calls” in his journal entries regarding his parents discovering his secret. Furthermore, no one wants to believe that his/her child is bad apple. Thus, when Wayne found Eric’s pipe bomb, he dismissed it. I do not believe he was acting as an overprotective parent; rather, he was seeing only what he wanted to see in his son. He did not approach the situation objectively.
Tali, #3: Like you, I also tagged Eric as a psychopath. Dylan was a bit more difficult to identify; sure, he was clearly depressed, but he also seemed to have moments of considerable joy. Not to mention, he had a bit of an ego. This is evidenced by his likening himself to a god compared to other humans. Why would someone who is depressed think so highly of himself?
Dhruv, #9: I agree that it was disrespectful of the NRA to convene in Denver, but I also believe that it would have been impractical for them to reschedule their meeting just because of a chance shooting. As noted in the book, the NRA planned the meeting weeks in advance – it’s not their fault that a shooting occurred. I personally think it was in bad taste, but at the same time, I can understand why they chose not to change their convention’s location.
Richard #2: it is so ridiculous that the police would ignore all of the complaints made about Eric and just assume he was just venting and not at all serious. but I kind of think the shooting still could have happened if the cops were keeping an eye on him. I think they should have investigated it enough to find something to lock him up.
ReplyDeleteShelby f #5: it’s like overcoming a problem. the first step is to accept the fact that something is wrong or in other situations that you are addicted to something. it could be looked at like that.
tobs #2: I wonder if both of them had actually gotten help maybe like a year before that shootings would it have truly helped them.
1. The author’s opinion on the way Columbine was unabashedly used to promote religion bleeds through in his tone. This is illustrated well by the sentences “Jesus Jesus Jesus. There was a whole lot of Him that day.” The tone is not very respectful, but not directly disrespectful either, and Cullen capitalizes the pronoun referencing God in the traditional Christian fashion. He also focuses more on individual pastors to show that some did take advantage of the event, but others were truly interested in helping people find God. The candid quote by the Evangelical pastor talking about “‘spiritual headhunters’” and other quotes aid the author’s analysis of the religious response of pastors to Columbine.
ReplyDelete2. Even had the warrant been served, Eric could still have found a way to attack the population somehow. Police would have found pipe bombs in his room, and Eric would have gotten in much more trouble, but he would not have gone to jail forever. Failing life-time incarceration there is no way Eric could have been completely stopped. He would likely have had much more difficulty in hiding and planning his attack, but an attack of some magnitude would likely still have happened. There just is not enough you can possibly do to stop someone who seems very likely to attack but who has not, not yet, admitted to a planned attack. Police officers working on the case probably just saw Eric as a teenager who could not really hurt anyone. They noted Eric as a danger, but failed to follow through when the warrant was no longer timely because they had other real crimes taking place. A boy venting his rage in such an extreme manner may be dangerous, but other, more concrete crimes are always taking place and also need to be dealt with.
3. Eric and Dylan do not seem to be logical. Their bursts of rage in particular are quite frightening, and Eric’s hate for everyone and Dylan’s love of “Harriet” seem unfounded. They do not seem sane, but clinically insane is another matter. More information on Eric is needed, I believe, to know whether or not he is a psychopath. He seems to have no reverence for human life or suffering and the outwardly collected appearance of a psychopath, but I would say that we do not yet have proof of his utter lack of emotion. Dylan definitely seems clinically depressed, at least by today’s standards. However, today’s standards on depression are very lax, and many people who go about their daily lives may be deemed to be in a depressive state if they are simply very sad about losing a loved one for an extended period of time. Dylan’s sadness permeates everything he does. He views himself and his life as hopeless: he has finally given up.
ReplyDelete5. I think that Wayne Harris was paying sufficient attention to what his son was doing. He just dismissed what he saw as teen angst, or something of the sort. He saw everything evil Eric did as temporary and was worried more about his son’s record that who his son might hurt. Wayne did not see his son as a bad kid. He was fooled by Eric’s outward manner and respectful attitude. After having raised a child from birth, I can imagine it would be impossible to admit to yourself that there is nothing you can do to save him. Wayne Harris thought that his son could be saved, and, therefore, that there was always more time to address his problems.
8. I think that the current laws we have in place regarding situations such as this are adequate. If the author is proven to know that his or her website may be used to harm people (take, for example a website on how to make a bomb that also provides targets), the author no longer has the right to keep that website. If, however, the website is just voicing hate, the author of that website is doing nothing wrong. He or she may be a despicable person, but he/she is a law-abiding person as well. I think that Eric should have been forced to take down his website because it obviously encourages other people to hurt their peers, but in general, hate websites should be protected by the First Ammendment.
Ed Zhu #4
ReplyDelete“ People always say that the violent TV shows, movies and music always influence our kids to be more violent. However, it is no direct correlation between the two ideas. One could argue that because Charles Manson was influenced by the Beatles, the Beatles are obviously one of the most mentally deranging bands in the world. I, personally, hate when the public assumes that violent music makes violent people. Only in extreme cases would it need the attention of an adult.”
I agree. It can also be noted that even correlation does not imply causation, as anyone who has taken psychology or statistics will know. Maybe these people watched violent videogames because they already had violent impulses. In addition, many people watch violent movies or television shows or listen to violent music, but not many of these people kill. However, the ones who do are the ones who are noted by the media. No one is going to say “Look at that winner of the Nobel Peace prize. He played a videogame where he killed zombies, so playing videogames where you kill zombies causes you to be more peaceful because it allows you to vent your rage.”
Kelbie #6
“Even after a conspiracy theory was ruled out as the cause for the shooting, the local authorities still held on to the idea, mainly in an attempt to have 'someone' to blame.' I think the fact that they realized that if the original plans for the attack had gone through the death toll would have been unimaginable made it much harder for people to believe that it was only the two highschool boys behind the opperation. No one wants to think that their paper boy or pizza guy could be capable of such a terrible thing.”
It would be too difficult for the public to believe that anyone, even someone they know very well, could cause such a thing. Therefore, Eric and Dylan’s friends must have been in on it. How else could so many people die? Someone must have known. People also want their loved one’s death to have meaning. If a person dies at the hands of two high school boys, I can imagine it would seem as if his or her life did not matter as much as if that person were to die as the result of an intense conspiracy.
Eva #9
ReplyDelete“I think Cassie’s story spread just because people were looking for something that gave them hope in such a tragic event. Just like the way Danny’s story spread, they wanted to believe that she didn’t die without a purpose. Her standing up for her beliefs probably did make other Christian parents hopeful that their children could one day have the same kind of faith that she had. Val Schnurr’s story probably did not spread as much as Cassie’s because people probably did feel like she was just copying Cassie’s story. Also they thought Cassie died standing up for her religion and as bad as it is, they might have felt that Val’s story was just not as important.”
It seems to mean more if something was lost for the proclamation of faith. While we know that in the moment it would have been equally as strong for either girl to announce her faith, it seems as if Cassie’s declaration would have taken more strength because she ended up dying for it. Her death would make her a real-life martyr, not just someone who stood up for her faith. We do not remember the almost-martyrs of ancient times. It is death that makes that last act so significant.
Shelby W. #7
“The NRA had a money verses humanity choice and they chose money. Bussiness wise, it was wise not to waste a pre-planned rally. Yet, they left themselves in the position of being patronized for coming under the circumstances. Personally, I am surprised they would chose to dismiss conditions for a grieving city and proceed with a silly gun rally.Basically, they are jerks, but what can you do?”
I think that the gun rally meant more than just money to a large amount of people. It was a way to stand up for rights and to say that guns did not cause this problem; People did. Canceling the gun rally would have been a way of admitting that guns were part of the problem. Sure, coming to Denver right after a shooting in a nearby town was callous, but I think that standing up for your freedoms is more important than this.
Reba #9
ReplyDelete“ Everyone wants the silver lining on their cloud. In a situation, like Columbine, people don't take the time to know the facts and think for themselves they fall for whatever the media feeds them; as is true is so many situations, not just Columbine. So for someone to have "died for their faith" is intriguing, it sounds heroic, and somehow makes it seem like good resulted in the end. Although all in all, she still died so how that is looked at as such a powerful thing I'm not sure. Val lived on, so her story didn't seem as dramatic. Also because her story came out after Cassie's it seemed as though she was more so looking for attention than anything else.”
What makes martyrs so powerful is the fact that they died. They could have said they did not believe in God, but their faith was too strong for that. Now, as Catholics at least would believe, the martyrs sit close to God in heaven. They conquered worldly fears and are better off for it. Martyrs solidify people’s faith. If someone else was strong enough to give his or her life for God, it seems as if sacrificing a couple hours every Sunday and praying during the week should not be such a large burden.
@Rose: Unfortunately his website was protected under the first amendment, which meant that he was free to post whatever he wished. Hate crime is not punishable unless it contains obscenity, incitement to violence, or defamation. Nonetheless, the police should have paid more attention - this was a clear warning sign. It would be hard to notice, but the abrupt posting was also a danger indicator.
ReplyDelete@Kaitlyn: The two kids were troubled, but the combination of psychopath and depression was very potent and dangerous. The book mentions other psychopathic/depressive duos who went on murder sprees. WIthout Eric, Dylan would have easily committed suicide long before, and without Dylan, Eric would have lost interest in carrying out the shooting.
@Ed: I agree with you on the music issue. The parents should be the ones to enforce music choices, and violent music does not lead to violent crime. it was hard to put a blame on mental illness when the cause is isolated to the boys itself.