1. One of the the ultimate question from this section was: Do you think Eric Harris was a psychopath? Why or why not? Do you think the label is useful or simply stigmatizing?
2. In the chapter 'The Parents Group' the stories of Patrick Ireland and Anne Marie Hochhalter are intertwined with information on the Jeffco coverup and the lawsuits following the attack. Does this make sense to you and work well (as these are both stories about the aftermath of the attacks) or would you have preferred to have the rehabilitation stories presented separately? Do the stories compliment one another?
3. The students of Columbine were repulsed by the use of their school name as a proper noun to describe school shootings or school violence. Does Dave's book help or harm their cause? What other example of diction are used similarly in other events?
4. Analyze the rhetoric of the sympathy letters from the Harrises and Klebolds?
5. Dylan laughed about picking on freshmen and 'fags' and the boys perceived themselves to be victimizers, not victims. Does this lead you to think that those who bully in schools should be watched for similar impulses - or is that too big of a leap to make? Do you think we should be looking at bullies to see if they have other characteristics of psychopaths?
6. In discussing the essay Eric wrote for Mr. Tonelli Dave writes, 'What chance did he have against a clever young psychopath? Few teachers know the meaning of the term.' Do you think teachers should be educated about psychopathy - and to what end [i.e., would it help prevent future attacks]?
7. "Who Owns The The Tragedy" is a chapter in which Eric and Dylan don't appear. Do you think that focusing on someone other than them provides a relief to the reader? Do you think Dave intentionally gave the reader breathing space here?
8. This chapter also details the struggle between the school and the media upon its reopening. Does the media seem unnecessarily insensitive to you or are they just trying to do their job? Where do your sympathies lie here - with the parents, the media, or is it mixed?
9. What is your opinion to the reactions to the revelations concerning the Cassie Bernall story?
10. Were you surprised that the Klebolds sued Jeffco? What is your opinions regarding the merits of their case?
11. Does Eric's attitude toward Robyn (and her feelings toward Dylan) in regard to the purchase of the guns further exemplify the lack of emotions in psychopaths?
12. Eric mocks his father in his journals by saying 'This is what I am motivated for...This is my goal...This is what I want to do with my life.' What is your reaction to this and what does it say to you regarding Eric's mental state?
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1. Eric was almost certainly a psychopath. All the evidence given in the book explains that he was clearly a psychopath, from Fusilier’s diagnosis to the other books cited in support of the diagnosis. His supreme lack of remorse for anything and willingness to con anyone display this. Honestly the label only moderately sheds lights on possible “motives.” It might give the “Thirteen” peace of mind that the world is ultimately good and that the victims were killed not out of individual spite or targeting, but simply because a psychopath went on a killing rampage for no other reason. Other than that, a retrospective label does nothing, as it cannot change the past nor predict the future if the killer is dead.
ReplyDelete5. Bullies in schools should be watched because they harm other children!!! All bullies, upon closer inspection, have meaningful characteristics that explain their motives. So yes, bullies should be watched in schools. What we will find are cases of domestic abuse that can be helped, anger management problems that can be diminished, and occasional psychopathic tendencies that can be recognized before it is too late.
6. I just want to say that I think that Cullen is portraying Mr. Tonelli in a very naïve way. Eric wrote an essay about learning his lesson from being in prison. How is a teacher supposed to expect psychopathy from a kid explaining how much he learned and how prison affected him? Honestly, educating teachers more about anything cannot hurt, but I do not believe it will safeguard us from future school shootings. If anything it would result in the occasional innocent student being accused of psychopathic tendencies, creating a big fiasco for both student and teacher.
7. Yes, I think Cullen intentionally left out Dylan and Eric for the audience’s sake. We needed a breather. I definitely felt relieved to not feel the stress of reading of Dylan and Eric’s plan to massacre their peers (Am I the only one that feels stressed out by that?). I have a feeling that others needed the breathing space as well.
11. The fact that Eric was willing to totally use Robyn’s feelings towards Dylan does show that he does not care about much of anything. He is really just wanting to exploit Robyn for his own personal gain without acknowledging that she might get hurt. He definitely displays a lack of emotions.
1. I am utterly convinced that Eric Harris was a psychopath. Unless Cullen got his facts wrong (which I doubt) or simply lied to us, Eric’s characteristics match up nearly perfectly with those of a textbook psychopath. Plus, a bunch of psychologists seem to share the same opinion. I think the label is useful—most people just cannot understand why someone would kill for fun. It’s helpful to know that he has a mental disorder; it gives us that clue that we were looking for, the “what-makes-him-different-from-us.” It helps people understand the tragedy.
ReplyDelete5. I think psychopaths are more the exception, not the rule. Bullies, however, should certainly, without a doubt, be monitored. A case of bullying indicates that there is something wrong—not with the victim, with the bully. It may stem from depression, home problems, or something else, but in any case, bullying is not something just to be dismissed. I do think that psychopathy is a bit of a leap, but we can’t just ignore such an obvious, glaring problem. Bullies should always be dealt with by professionals.
7. I think Cullen artfully spliced together chapters from the aftermath and chapters from the build-up. It maintains an interesting and slightly sickening juxtaposition: the rebuilding of the school and lives, and the evolution of Eric and Dylan’s plans and problems. The Eric/Dylan chapters keep the reader feeling that sense of impending doom, because the aftermath chapters show you all of the painful, difficult fallout from the event. But the aftermath chapters also give you a sense of hope, because you know that these people do manage to rebuild themselves and their lives, that Eric’s plans for mass destruction don’t come to light. And having both types of chapters mixed in together gives the reader a nice break from the tragedy or from the psychopathy/depression.
8. I think that the media, ultimately, was just trying to do their job, but the situation called for a lot more sensitivity. My sympathies, though, were with the parents and students. This was definitely Cullen’s doing: he portrays the media terribly (in general), which is understandable, given how they screwed so many things up and proliferated so many myths. He also is portraying the victims of Columbine in a very good light, especially Patrick. It’s an irresistible appeal to ethos, and he pits us against the media while making us feel like defending the victims. But I think the situation worked out extremely well for both the media and the parents.
12. I found this extremely disturbing. When people ask me what I want to do with my life, I generally start in on the college-job-explosion-of-success rant. Eric wanted to destroy humanity as a life goal. It certainly exposes his mental problems: he mocks his father, who was on his side, really, and wants to kill as many people as he possibly can. It’s a disturbing show of motivation that pretty much seals the case on his being mentally unstable.
6. Simply being educated on the nature of psychopathy does not help being manipulated. These people are adepts at manipulating people and slipping off people's radar. Because we assume (or would like to assume) that most people in the world are good, imitated sincerity can pass off as real. Some of Eric's work shows some mistakes he made earlier, but the "sincere" attempt at redemption after his crimes was nonetheless appealing. In this situation, education of psychopathy might help, but the main prevention relies on examining hard evidence and following leads properly.
ReplyDelete7. I think Dave did give a breather of sorts. The parts on Eric are quite disturbing and graphic. The segments where it enters into Eric and Dylan's mind depict graphic violence, and scary manipulation. The respetite is a welcome break from the twisted insight into the killer's minds. I'd like to think that I have a high tolerance for graphic content, but the insight is very alien and quite horrifying.
5. There are many motivations for the willingness to bully. These include a desire to assert power (suspected most common), projection of emotional or personal problems from home, and a desire to inflict pain. I don't think that bullies should be watched for those impulses, as they tend to enjoy a continual system of harassment. In addition, psychopaths are less likely to be bullies due to the continual routine of bullying: they would be bored soon. Nonetheless, bullies should be monitored more frequently and it is not just the victim's job to report bullying.
12. Eric's attitude shows an unusual motivation not seen by many psychopaths. Many would get bored after a year of planning. It is obvious that the emotional "support" from Dylan urged him to continue on with the plan. But it also displays the typical psychopathic lack of long term planning. Lastly, I'd say that this entry shows his obsession with judgement: his desire to perfect the world to his standards.
9. My opinion is that the revelations were truly saddening. It's quite harsh to have a story of heroism built up on a pillar of lies, only to have it shatter when the truth emerges. It's especially hard on the parents, to know that your child died helplessly without heroics. The continual publishing of the story is very disrespectful, as it propagates the lie that most would want to believe.
@Tali: I'd love for more inspection and action on bullying, but the public education system fails at helping victims. As a former bullied person, I know that it is difficult to ask for help for fear of retribution or self-shame. The thought process is normal in that fighting a bully gets them both in trouble.
ReplyDelete@Megan: Cullen does present sympathy for the victims, and justly so after what they had been through. But I feel as though I'd call them survivors. It's probably a small difference but out of all the people at Columbine, they were lucky or determined enough to escape. The word victim implies a negative connotation, as if a continual stain. Survivor, shows that the person has endured a tremendous ordeal but is determined to recover.
1. At this point, I'm certain Eric was a psychopath given the way he went around manipulating whoever was an obstacle. He needs to be labeled as such so that his actions make sense; otherwise what he did and what he wrote would only contradict instead of hint his true intentions.
ReplyDelete5. Most bullying is not going to escalate to the level of Eric and Dylan, and to be frank, bullying is not what made them commit mass murder. "It's always the quiet ones," in this case meaning that the person being bullied is more likely to resort to violence to stop the bullying. Watching bullies is just another step toward complete paranoia about an impending attack from any student who even slightly bullies another student.
6. Eric was able to defeat psychiatrists, so what chance would trained teachers have? The point of manipulation, in this form, is to say exactly what the other person wants to hear. Think about it; try training someone to safe guard against what they want to hear from students. Perfectly good students would be targeted more for being themselves. Training could help, but most definitely be ineffective against more trained psychopaths.
7. Relief is definitely felt by the reader since the disturbing blips of Dylan's and Eric's thinking patterns have ceased, at least temporarily. Dave purposefully allowed breathing room right before plunging back into the minds of Eric and Dylan; a reprieve from the search for the omnipresent "why?". Dave diverted into a search for who is affected the most.
8. Both actually. The media is insensitive to point that they just want a story and coverage and ratings and generally do not care about who they chasing down, but that is their job. I have no sympathies; the parents aren't so clean themselves. They are to greedy even though they have just reasons for what they want, but suing left and right is not giving them good light. Namely Brian is making it very hard to sympathize with parents with all his rantings and threats of lawsuits. The media is trying to carry out it's purpose: spread the news whatever it may be, while the parents keep searching for closure.
1. Most definitely, because out of all the signs and characteristics Cullen reveals that a psychopath is known to have, match with behaviors of Eric. It’s just as simple as that! I guess it would be stigmatizing because he would be labeled as an “undesirable”, that there is something wrong with him and that he is potentially dangerous.
ReplyDelete5. Yes, because this event proves that it isn’t always the victim that snaps and then takes a gun to school. The bullies themselves could pose as a psychopath like Eric did. They should be watched anyways because even bullying situations end in death, whether it is a bully gone too far, a victim getting revenge or committing suicide. Why not look for signs of a psychopath? It might help, because as we see with Erica and Dylan, sometimes the psychopathic kid hides it very well. Wouldn’t such a “big of a leap” be worth taking if it saves even one life or changes it for the better?
6. Why not? Again, if it helps even a little, isn’t it worth it? What if a teacher is trained and he or she thinks one student has potential signs, but the student is in a very young grade. Then they can get that kid some professional help early and it might help them by the time they are a teen. It could prevent future attacks or harmful situations.
7. Yeah, I was getting a little overloaded myself with all the doom and gloom Eric and Dylan always talked about. This was a nice little “breathing space”, I think. If it wasn’t there then the reader would lose interest, thinking “Oh, this book is too depressing/ disturbing. I’m going to read something else.” The authors in the past books we read did the same thing to keep the audience’s attention and focus.
11. Yes, because it’s another example of how he likes to use and/or manipulate people, which is a characteristic of a psychopath. He doesn’t care how it will affect her in the end; all he is thinking about is finally getting his hands on a gun to mow down people with.
Tali #1 - I disagree, it may be that parents at the very least want a reason for their child's death. And I think the label at least lends a reason for Eric's contradictory actions and writings.
ReplyDeleteTali #7 - I agree, after everything the book covers, the readers deserve a reprieve. Either we were in the minds of Eric and Dylan or learning new facts about how they carried out their deed. That compared to what the chapter covers, is much more stressful.
Megan #5 - I see your point, bullies should be watched, but just on their own and not on a psychopath hunt. They are a danger however still to themselves and whoever they bully. And don't forget the person being bullied still has a chance of retaliating violently as well.
Megan #8 - My thought differ slightly, but I agree with your response for the most part. Cullen did have a negative portrayal of the media from the get go and it has not improved since' although the parents themselves have their dark side too.
Dhruv #6 - I agree completely; the psychopaths are trying to seem real so that their way is achieved. How can one be trained against what is real?
Dhruv #9 Yeah I found it quite sad, too. At first I thought it was the most excellent story, but once the truth came out, oh! What a way to destroy a person and he parents! I did, too, find that how they just kept the story going after the fact wrong. yes it was a great and inspiring story, but it was also a lie.
ReplyDeleteMegan #12 Disturbing, I agree ten fold. That just sends chills up my spine. "What do you want to do when you grow up?" "Oh, destroy every human being in existence. *creepy smile*" This totally exposes his mental instability. I mean, If someone just brushed this off along with the other signs of his psychopathic behavior, then not only are they blind but they are also mentally ill as well.
Tali #6 That's true too. I can see that happening. people getting all worked up at a possible psycho student that really isn't, and that experience ruining the student's life and causing so much chaos. Seems very possible.
Tali #7 You're not alone. I felt slightly stressed out too, or at least a lot of tension in those sections. i don't know what it is. I'm a huge scary movie fan and find the criminal mind fascinating at times, and yet I feel this. Maybe Cullen goes deeper in their thoughts than I have ever seen before. It is disturbing that's for sure. Anyway, breather= good.
ReplyDeleteTobs #8 I agree. Cullen seems to be constantly painting the media as heartless throughout the book, but they are doing their job. they want a story, whether it is true or only slightly true. In previous parts of the book it seemed that all the media wanted was a story to get views, and in result, get money.
1-Yes I do because he had a decent life in highschool and had no reason to become a murderer. I think the label of psychopath is useful because it lets some people feel better that a normal person didn’t do this, it was someone that was crazy.
ReplyDelete3 I think the book Cullen wrote harmed their cause. Since the title was simply just columbine it made people just use that word for the shootings more often. However he did not label the shootings just as columbine, but the media and everyone has already caused everyone to just say columbine it would be nearly impossible to change everyone to not say that.
5-I think this is too far of a leap to make. A lot of kids bully, they try to make themselves look better by making someone else look worse. Everybody does this without trying and sometimes without knowing.
6- I don’t think teachers need to be that educated in psychology. Eric was just a special case. It wouldn’t really prevent future attacks since the kids could just hide it or some teachers wouldn’t realize it until it would be too late.
12- This is very sad and painful for me. Its so painful for a dad to hear this from a son. This shows how unstable he is right now. He is trying to make as many people as possible suffer before he kills everyone.
1. I believe that Eric was a psychopath, there was no motivation to kill except that he claimed to hate the world. Being declared a psychopath probably, to some extent, brought comfort to the families of those passed because they would’ve known he didn’t kill because of who they were but just because they were ‘convenient’.
ReplyDelete6. Teaching a educators and others who deal with students regularly warning signs of psychopath, depression, and other things that may affect a student and their judgment would be a positive thing, although I’m not sure it would prevent anything in the future. The signs are so spread out, and appear obvious when put together in a book such as this, but in real life they are hard to relate.
7. I think that the break was to allow the readers to almost recover from the previous chapters. There is only so many things to say about Eric and Dylan, and focusing on something other than them allowed the audience to maintain interest in the story as a whole.
11. Eric Harris was a manipulative person, and showed a complete disregard for people’s feelings and attitudes. This was evident through his relationship and actions towards Robyn and Dylan. He did not take interest in how it would affect either Robyn or Dylan, as he didn’t care- he couldn’t care.
12. Again Eric shows a disregard towards other people’s feelings. He doesn’t care who has to suffer or how much he simply was looking to kill as many people as he could before he left. This is obviously the effects of being a psychopath. He was not mentally stable, as any ‘normal’ person would not look to intentionally mock someone in that way.
Kelsea -
ReplyDelete1) I believe Eric Harris is a psycopath based on the evidence from the book, which showed that he felt superiority of the human race, since he demeaned majority of people on his website and in his journal. Also, Eric was a habitual liar, and his manipulation was shown when he wrote a empathetic letter to the victim of the van, then wrote in his journal also demeaning him.
3) In a way, he defends the students of Columbine, instead giving the name also to not only describe the event, but also the people involved. For example, when he discusses how the students are recovering, he often repeats the phrase "we are Columbine."
5) Determing if someone is a psycopath is very difficult to determine as they are extremely manipulative, and often least expected. If anything, people should pay attention for people who pick on everyone, not to a specific group of people.
6) I do not believe teachers should be educated on psychopathy, as it extremely difficult to diagnose, but instead focus more on noticing depressed or students that seem troubled, and take that more seriously.
9) The truth about Cassie's story was, in a way, upsetting because i had her story previously and thought it was true. I understand how it must have been difficult for Val to tell the true, as it brought comfort, hope, and closure for many people, primarily her parents.
@Tobs: Quiet ones huh? Guess that means people like Xander, Suraj, and I, who joke about it all the time, are the least likely suspects. But still, the bullying usually goes unoticed anyways. It'd help if bullies were cast focused on for a bit - might ease things up.
ReplyDelete@Alden: I'm not sure about the name. I think the book does dispel some of the myths it talks about, and defends Columbine as a school and not a killing zone. He talks about the school spirit in the first page, and describes efforts of the survivors to recuperate after the killings.
@Shelby: I wish it were possible, but the signs of psychopathy are really only known by people very close to the person. People like Dylan and Zack truly knew Eric, with his quick mood swings. Perhaps it would be easier to detect maybe with a high level of training.
Reba #1 - I agreee also it could have brought some comfort, due to, if COlumbine never occured, Eric Harris could have gone on to kill more people, compared to where Dylan would have either commited suicide or maybe gotten help, to proceed to live a normal life.
ReplyDeleteAlden#6 - I think the title of the book was not necessarily about the event, but also the people involved. From the book, he gave a new meaning for the word, which involved Columbine survivors, teachers, and students today.
Tali#12 - I agree this did further emphasize his lack of emotions and manipulation, which are also examples of his psychopathy.
Tobi#6 - Eric being able to manipulate his therapist was a strong point, along with with that it is difficult to diagnose pyschopathy as they are often habitual liars. Educating teachers about psychopathy would most likely be ineffective.
Tali - I agree that bullying should be watched, which was taken account as most schools have zero tolerance rules today. This may have helped many students today, and prevented situations.
Tali #1) Tali, you are absolutely correct. His lack of regard for anyone’s feelings, and lack of motives seems to all fit to make him a psychopath. And I think their was ‘peace’ in knowing this for the families.
ReplyDeleteMegs #5) I think this is true, you’re not going to find to many psychopaths in anyone place so educating teachers on this may prevent one or two kids across the country from committing something like this, but I don’t think it would be as effective as some may like to think.
Dhruv #6) You’ve made a good point- there were signs to educated people (the police) that were not followed up on and should have been. I think education teachers would only do so much good.
Dhruv #7) The intensity of the story really did need a bit of a break. The reality of the situation is scary and graphic for an average person.
Tobs #8) The media sure did act like they just wanted a good story, and the parents didn’t help the cause.
Megan #8- I would most certainly agree. The media is paid to do their job but they neglected to be sensitive to the parents’ struggles. I doubt that any one of the journalists or reporters experienced such a struggle, and I thought they should have at least made a conscious effort to empathize.
ReplyDeleteDhruv #9- I feel terrible for Cassie’s parents, as the continued spreading of the story is extremely disrespectful and inappropriate. I am sure if Cassie knew of all of this she would not be pleased either.
Tobs #6- You make an extremely valid point. The danger of a psychopath resides in his or her ability to look and sound like a sane person when in reality he or she is not. In addition, psychopaths have the ability to continually perfect their conning abilities, making almost anyone able to fall prey to their skills.
Shelby F #7- I did not think about that before. It is very plausible that the author wanted to keep us concentrated and not distracted by the extreme sadness brought on by the chapters all about Eric and Dylan’s plans to massacre their peers. The break definitely helped readers stay hanging on to learn what happened to some of the victims.
Kelsea #3- I noticed that too! He describes that the students were disgruntled by people using the term “Columbine” as a general term to describe the shooting, but then he uses phrases such as “since Columbine. . .” and “reporters thought Columbine was. . .” So not entirely helping their cause.
Tali, #6: Yeah, I can see something like that happening. There will always be one teacher that takes their psychopathy-diagnosis training a little too far and start seeing characteristics of psychopathy in every little thing a student does.
ReplyDeleteTobi, #7: I like that word…”reprieve”. Anyways, I agree that Cullen is giving a reader the break, but I certainly did not appreciate it! After getting so far along in the book, I’d rather have Cullen straight up answer my question of “why”, rather than tantalizing with periods of text that don’t feature Eric or Dylan. However, Cullen’s rhetoric and style kept me reading, so I can’t help but say that his technique is effective.
Tobi, #8: You know, I never considered not having sympathy for the parents, but I think you hold a valid point. The whole time I read the book, I felt so sorry for them, I felt like they were suing because it was their way outlet for their grief. It also showed how dedicated they were to their children.
Alden, #3: I agree; the event is just known as Columbine now. Their attempts to un-stigmatize (is that a word) the word are noble, but their efforts are undermined by books like Cullen, the media, and the general laziness of people (including myself) to refer to it as “the Columbine school shooting.”
Kelsea, #9: I honestly can’t imagine how torn Val must have felt about exposing the truth behind Cassie’s story. Not only did she have to live with the vilification of fervent religious believers, she also had to deal with knowing that she shattered Cassie’s mother’s perception of how her mother died. Compound that emotional weight with the actual tragedy of the school shooting, and one starts to truly appreciate the fortitude exhibited in telling the truth.
Tali 1- I agree completely but I don’t think it gives the “Thirteen” peace of mind. It gives the rest of the world peace of mind because of all those reasons you gave about just another psycho going on a rampage.
ReplyDeleteTali 7- I agree, haha I was tired of all these hateful blogs or ways they were going to kill people, it was a nice breathe of fresh air like you said.
Megan 5- I don’t think bullies are that bad compared to psychopaths. Yes they cause havoc to kids with low self esteem but that’s a lot better than killing any kid out there. I think psychopaths should be monitored not bullies.
Megan 12- I agree but I think it was more aimed at his dad to show his relationship with him. How he probably hated his dad (like everything else) and just wanted to make him hurt by showing him that he really didn’t want anything he wanted him to have. The true rebel.
Druhv 7- Yes the insights are a break and all from the gruesome killings but I wouldn’t call it alien and horrifying it was just different from the rest of the story to make the book either have more depth or to just give us a break from dying people.
Megan 1- I agree that Eric was a psychopath. I also agree that labeling him helps people understand more why he did it. The fact that he killed for basically no reason is easier for them to accept if they know he is a psychopath.
ReplyDeleteShelby F 7- I also think that the reader gave us “breathing space”. I always get tired of reading about the same topic for a while; I begin losing interest if it is too gruesome and I don’t feel like reading it anymore. I think that Cullen taking a break from all the talk of Eric and Dylan gave the readers time to think about something else and not just the shootings.
Alden 5- I also think it’s too far of a leap to associate all bullies with being psychotic. People bully others every day without knowing it. Not that it is okay but they are also not psychopaths. I think in this case Eric being a bully was caused by him being a psychopath but in most cases its just kids being mean.
Kelsea 6- I also don’t think that teachers should be educated in psychopathy because it doesn’t happen so frequently. Teachers should instead be taught how to recognize bullying and depression because I think that plays a big role in almost all schools whereas psychopathy doesn’t really.
Tali 11- I totally agree that Eric’s behavior towards Dylan and Robyn just goes to further show how much of a psychopath he really is. It is the perfect example of how he has no emotions to how the actions can affect them, especially Robyn.
1. I do believe that Eric' lack of empathy and manipulative style supports the psychopath theory. However, the title "Psychopath" opens up broad and obscure ideas based off of common knowledge, such as exaggerated movies or stories, rather than facts. So, I feel the title doesn't portray the right image of his actual character. People stick him with the crazies rather than understanding the depth behind psychopaths and his circumstances.
ReplyDelete5. We can't categorize a group based off of one event. However, bullies have a history of problems in the home and low self esteem. Those characteristics can apply to Dylan, but not Eric. Meaning, psychopath's are special cases and you cannot assume they will play the same role every time.
6. Teachers witness more than they would like on a regular basis because they have the blessing of seeing students regularly in their "elements". Therefore, they could easily analyze students with the knowledge of psychopathy. It could definitely help prevent future events, but it will bring controversy, mostly from parents(what doesn't?).
7. Personally, I was annoyed by their absence because I was interested in learning more about Eric's psychopathy. At that, I found it unnecessary and distracting. If the reader is a baby, maybe the break gave them relief. The only thing I even remember about the chapter is that they weren't in it.So hopefully Dave didn't do it intentionally or else I may not like his style...
12. My reaction could be deemed sick, but upon reading his mockery I thought, "Well hey, technically it's what his dad wants him to do...have a goal and work for it." Therefore I found it kind of humorous from his point of view because he can follow through on his work and still say, "I did as you wished." The feeling of being right in an argument with your parents gives a sense of power and control, which is common for any teenager. The way he mocks his father could be compared with any teenager who believes they aren't in the wrong. It was cold-blooded, but it does not represent psychopathy.
Kelsea #3 – I disagree because he titles his book “Columbine” which would make it easier to refer to it from his novel as Columbine. Even if it was unintentional, he helped name the event. I feel like he was opinionated on the title behind the event, but he was understanding.
ReplyDeleteReba #12 – It is understandable to simply view his statement as an addition to his overall psychopath ways. However I feel this specific statement could be realistic in a parent to child confrontation; it could be called the heat of the moment if we did not know his history.
Alden #6 – It is better to have something rather than nothing. Why not just educate the teachers in psychiatrics to have the extra prevention? They don’t necessarily have to handle the situation, but rather they can inform an actual psychiatrist.
Shelby #1 – I agree that he should have been diagnosed with psychopathy however introducing him to the public as a psychopath should have been dealt with more delicately. The medical term and the public’s definition are more or less off meaning he can be labeled as a monster when he is actually just mentally ill.
Tobi #8 – Your answer is exactly what I would have written if I answered this question. The media has a job to do, they get paid, and insensitivity is common in their field due to the competition. I also sympathize for the grieving parents. However Brian is DEFINITELY like an annoying fly who is milking the event for everything from money to fame. That can put a damper on my outlook for the other parents who are pressing charges.
1. I do feel that Eric Harris is a definite psychopath. Cullen has provided multiple accounts of Fuselier’s thinking process and how the hypothesis of Eric’s psychopathy underwent multiple examinations. All of this led me to believe that Eric is textbook-psychopath. However, I do not find the label useful as the definition of psychopath among the public is very broad and overall, inaccurate. The general public has come to know psychopaths as just mass murderers. Eric doesn’t just fit this description; he is part of a category that does not always mean murder, just lack of multiple sincere emotions.
ReplyDelete2. Both stories are separated so that the story of the cover-up does not interfere with the story of the rehabilitation. However, both are closely related by the title of the chapter, “The Parents Group.” This group had multiple goals, which included bringing the information to the public and helping the victims restart life anew. They complement each other due to the parents’ push for both the recovery and the revealing.
3. I believe that it helps their cause, primarily because this book, Columbine, isn’t only about the shooting. It is about the community before and after a tragic event. It doesn’t only symbolize death; it symbolizes recovery, rage, tears, passion, and a binding community. It is similar to saying 9-11 to refer to the date of the terrorism attack on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.
4. In the Klebolds’ letter, they include comparisons of themselves and Brad and Misty. They say that they too were oblivious and are still having trouble understanding. They also relate to their strong religious beliefs by including a prayer at the end. They praise Cassie with lavish words to appeal to their audience’s feelings of pathos and further relate themselves to their audience.
12. Eric was and was always extremely cocky. His mocking is just another show of that. He wouldn’t dare to mock his father to his face, but he can do it easily on a tape that will only be shown after he has died. Eric thinks he is obviously superior to his father, especially after what he perceives will be his greatest achievement, NBK.
6. I don’t think it’s necessary for teachers to be educated about psychopathy because I really don’t think it’s that prevalent of an issue in schools. Though there may be some students who are, I think the schools should be addressing other issues like bullying that they can educate teachers more on. Also, it may not be able to prevent future attacks because for the most part other school shooters were not psychopaths.
ReplyDelete8. I think the media is partially insensitive but I think it’s because they want to do their job. They don’t see students trying to move on, they see an opportunity for a good follow up story. I’m sympathetic to the students because they all are trying to move on but are constantly being hindered in one way or another. This is one reason why I really liked the part where they wanted to demonstrate that they were taking back their school by blocking of the media.
9. Just like before I think people were just not willing to accept the truth. They wanted a story that gave them hope and not one that showed that the killers were really merciless and that Cassie died for no reason.
10. I was surprised but I think they had good reason for doing so. The police should have followed up on the complaints against Eric properly they should also have alerted his parents and Dylan’s parents as well. I’m not saying that they could have prevented the event without a doubt but I think there would have been a slim chance of the shooting happened if they had done their jobs right.
11. Eric’s attitude towards Robyn just further goes to illustrate the fact that he is a psychopath. It shows that he only sees in people what they can do for him. The only purpose he saw in Robyn was that she could help him get guns and that he could manipulate her because she liked Dylan.
1. I do think Eric Harris was a psychopath. He had the characteristics of being one and most people generally do not kill. Many of the other psychologists agreed that he was definitely a psychopath. The label does nothing at all. It can’t change the past and it can’t necessarily change the future. It just gives people a name to use.
ReplyDelete2. I think the stories being combined do help. They help compare each person to the other and effectively explain how bad it really was for them. The lawsuits and Jeffco cover up did make it kind of confusing and I think it should have been separated more.
3. I think the book helps because even though it uses the name the same way that repulsed the students, it explains why it repulsed them and helped clarify everything. Other situations are like the Virginia Tech shooting. The date 9/11 was used and the Holocaust.
5. I think bullies in schools should always be watched. Even if bullies are not planning on killing anyone they still should not be picking on anyone else. It could cause the victim to end up suicidal. Maybe we should look for symptoms of psychopaths just as a precaution but if nothing shows up it should not be made into a big deal.
7. I think Cullen definitely did intentionally leave out Eric and Dylan. Breathing space was definitely needed because of the amount of heavy material in the book. Their is a lot of graphic description and details about the emotions of Eric and Dylan that are hard to take in especially all at once. The chapter helped readers for sure.
1. I would indeed categorize Eric Harris as a psychopath. The classification is less of a stigma and more of a simple reassurance for those who knew him before he led the Columbine shooting. Knowing that his reality was severely warped would be a major comfort to the survivors and families of the victims.
ReplyDelete3. The use of Columbine as a near synonym for school violence was a troubling side effect of the shooting, but Cullen’s book, for all its good, did little to alleviate this correlation. Some other examples of this type of linkage between a word and a type of an event include Chernobyl as a synonym for nuclear disaster.
6. In my opinion educating teachers about psychopathy would be the worst possible reaction to the Columbine shooting. Many overeager teachers would identify many students as budding psychopaths, sending them off for counseling when in reality they were just magnet kids.
Tali #1:
ReplyDeleteI definitely agree that labeling Eric as a psychopath does nothing to change the future. Labels in long run are irrelevant in many situations not just in this one.
Dhruv #6:
Psychopaths do get bored, so monitoring bullies for psychopathic behavior might not be the best idea because continuously noticeable bullies are not psychopaths since they have obviously not gotten bored yet.
Shelby F #11:
I agree. Eric before he died had seemed to care about Robyn, but after the massacre it shows he never had strong emotions because if he really had cared he would not have put her in a position of danger to begin with.
Alden #3:
I agree since the media already made Columbine a name the book could not have changed things much worse but I do think at least the book explains how these students felt about the name Columbine so the reader can have his or her own opinion on it.
Suraj #5:
I liked the way you explained the difference between a bully and a psychopath. It is definitely true that psychopaths don’t have emotions while bullies easily could break down at any point.
9. To me, the Cassie Bernall story revelation was hilarious. My reaction, however was not the topic of the question and is simply an antithesis to the standard reaction of shock, disbelief, and then anger; also known as the standard stages of grief. Loss of a pseudo-religious figure is often disconcerting to the religiously inclined, making the reactions perfectly understandable.
ReplyDelete12. Eric’s mocking of his father is extremely telling as it shows his absolute loss of sanity has permeated his reality. The complete loss of any sort of family affiliation is an interesting sign in his development as a psychopath with regard to the eventual degradation into Columbine.
1. In the passage I think Cullen lays out the facts, and on paper it does look like Eric is a psychopath. As if the audience has already made up their mind or not, I think by now in the book through Eric’s actions we can infer that he is psychotic
ReplyDelete5. In my opinion I think both the victim and the bully should be examined. Bullying is just a vicious cycle. Bullies almost always have a reason to why they pick on other people, whether it is abusive parents or unknown insecurities, so because of this these people pick on other kids at school. Bulling should be watched very carefully, because the consequences can be dangerous.
7. Yes, I do think it was intentional. The book can sometimes be very difficult to read and you have to put it down every now and then, by putting the chapter in there it adds a little relief for the reader making the book easier to read and, understand other sections of the book better.
6. Honestly I think psychopaths hide their mental illness, even if you educated teachers it would be difficult to pinpoint which kid was psychotic or not. I would agree that most of the time school shootings happen because of bullying, and maybe schools could higher no tolerance policies. Unfortunately tragedies like this will happen and in my opinion it kinda all boils down to stricter gun policies ….
3. Well I think by now it’s too late to change the fact that when people say the word Columbine people will automatically associate it with the shooting, but I do not think Cullen helps or hurts the cause. In his book he does not only discuss the shooting but he talks about the community of Columbine, and how the shooting affected them. So I would say that the book it properly titled
1. Reba has a good point, the knowledge that your child was simply a accessible target could either be comforting or could simply result in just outright anger at the universe.
ReplyDelete3. Alden’s response here is rather clever, as he points out the fact that Cullen manages to dissociate the actual name of the place and the event.
6. Tobi makes a good point here with a quote from the book referencing the fact that Eric showed masterful skill in shredding psychiatrists. Also the training would be completely ineffective, in part due to the reasons he mentioned.
5. As usual, Tali makes a very good point with her remarks on bulling often having a root cause. The roots of bulling should indeed be examined before conclusions are drawn.
ReplyDelete7. Megan’s analysis of the chapter’s Memento style chronology is quite good and does an excellent job of divining why Cullen chopped up the chapters.
1. After reading part 4 of Columbine, I am certain that Eric Harris was a psychopath. All of Eric's actions and beliefs including his lack of remorse for others are classic examples of a psychopath's mental problems. The label itself is appropriate in my opinion because it allows people to finally find a true reason for Eric's random killings, allowing family and friends of those who died to feel more at ease.
ReplyDelete5. Although Dylan and Eric can both be considered bullies by todays standards, I feel as though it is still a little bit too much to really make the leap and begin to really crack down on bullying. Also, i feel like checking to make sure people who pick on others are not psychopaths is a little bit odd too; truth of the matter is, not many people are mentally like Eric Harris and his friend Dylan, even if they do act similarly.
6. Educating teachers about how to spot a psychopath has its ups and downs, however, I feel as though it would do more harm then good. For example, if a teacher isn't very good at spotting them, a psychopath can slip from beneath them. However, if they are confident about their skills, they may accuse too many people of being psychopaths, and they could potentially even abuse their power.
7. I believe Dave Cullen intentionally left out Eric in Dylan in this chapter due to the large amount of gruesome knowledge obtained by the readers every chapter, such as the boys' plans to kill everyone, all of their horrible ideas, etc. It allows the audience to finally take some sort of a breather due to the difficult reading, allowing further reading to be more simple and easy to understand.
10. I personally was very surprised that the Klebolds sued Jeffco, however I also understand their reasoning. The fact that they would put the blame of their sons actions on the Jefferson County Sherrif's department was pretty crazy to me, even if they did "fail" to act on a police report about Eric Harris. However, after thinking about it, it seems as though they have a pretty legitimate cause in suing, because if Jeffco and the sheriff's department had done what would have been expected of them, it all could have been avoided.
#1 The term “psychopath” is very strong; and, although Eric was definitely not at all mentally straight, he was normal enough to where I believe he was only verging on the edge of this title.
ReplyDelete#2 I do believe the stories complement each other, however I would have liked to read them separately just for simplicity’s sake. Being intertwined as they were was quite complicated reading.
#5 There will always be high school bullies, this is inevitable. However, there reaches a point at which a bully becomes a sick-minded freak that action needs to be taken by the school/parents. A bully who is abused at home is very different from a normal kid of the middle-class with an average life at home that has a website about bomb fabrication and a “hit-list”.
#7 Reading this type of novel does require breaks. Such a depressing topic needs some breathing room and I do believe Cullen left the suspects out of this chapter to provide the reader with a “break” without actually pausing their progress in reading the book.
#8 In this touchy of a situation, my views are quite strong in that the media needs to back the ***** off. Everyone that wants to know the correct information has gotten it elsewhere, and the media does not need to be insensitively butting their way in for a good story. For the sake of the parents of those lost, they just needed to butt out.
ohh my gosh i just tried to post my answers and up pops "sorry, we were unable to perform your request" grrr so here goes round 2...
ReplyDelete1) From what i know about psychopaths from tv, research, and the evidence from the book, Eric definitely fits the mold. He doesn't show remorse for any of his actions, is quite charming, feels basically no emotion, and manipulates almost everyone around him. The label of 'psychopath' is useful, but the only problem is that it is extremely hard to identify a true psychopath before he/she has committed some terrible crime. Psychopaths can fool everyone into believing that they are smart, charming people; it's only after they've shot their mother and don't feel bad about it that it becomes clear that there is a major issue.
3)I think the students and citizens of Columbine have the right to be upset that their home, their school, has become synonymous with the act of shooting up a school. I don't think Cullen intentionally spurs on this false connotation, but by titling his book, about the school shooting, 'Columbine' it's hard to stay away fromt he popular media definition of the word.
5) Bullying is a huge issue, a deathly one. Granted, not all bullies bring guns to school and shoot kids, but what about all of the kids that have committed suicide because they were relentlessly bullied? Personally, i believe that should be considered murder in some degree. Of course bullies need to be monitored, but i would also say that the kids that are often on the other end of the exchange should be kept close as well. i see just as much potential for a kids who is bullied constantly to become violent and seek revenge as i do with the bully trying to show everyone who they are. Being a bully does not mean you are automatically a psychopath. No one stands out in a crowd as a 'psychopath' which is what makes them so incredibly dangerous and scary.
7) To be honest, this book is pretty disturbing. I have found myself walking around school kinda paranoid actually, thinking 'what if that guy or that girl has some crazy hate-the-fucking-world attitude and they decide to act on it one of these days?' I know it's a bit extreme, but reading this book just points out the fact that we can't ever really know for sure what people are capable of doing. So yes, i was very glad to read a chapter without Eric and Dylan. Although it is very interesting, reading about this teenage pyschopath and how he seduced his 'bestfriend' into doing this is not very easy. It's a big book and Cullen realizes that it's necessary at some point to not focus on the killers.
ReplyDelete11) Eric's attitude towards Robyn, his best friend's girl, is a pretty good example of his lack of emotions. I'm sure there is probably something included in 'BroCode' that says "Don't use your best friend's girlfriend just to get what you want" or something to that effect. Eric had one thing on his mind, getting close to Dylan and being his friend was just a necessary aspect of pulling off his plan.
Arvin #1 Although I did not make the same argument, I can see exactly why you believe this. I too feel that the one thing making Eric psychopathic was his lack of emotions in doing such awful things.
ReplyDeleteShelby Woodall #12 HAHA you are absolutely right! (Not sarcasm) I never noticed this before, yet I completely agree that this is some sort of intended ironic comparison that Cullen discretely threw in to entertain our “AP” minds.
Tali #7 Great minds think alike! I needed this breathing room badly, yet I was not ready to put down the book, so this chapter came as a relief to me.
Suraj #11 Professor Suraj, you make quite the valid point here. Although not in an obvious fashion, Eric was indeed using his peers for personal gain without even a hint of knowledge from either of them. He was a “well-trained” psychopath.
Kelsea #5 I definitely agree with your point about bullies who do not specify their targets. Eric and Dylan had no “preferences” in their killing spree; everything was random. Bullies tend to target specific kids and pick on them repeatedly, nothing like what Eric and Dylan did.
Kaitlyn 1 - I agree with you full; all the factual evidence is laid out right in front of us, allowing us to infer that he is indeed a psychopath.
ReplyDeleteTali #7 - I agree with you on this one because I, too, felt the difficulty of reading the book without getting my mind off of Eric and Dylan's horrible actions.
Xander 6 - I agree with you; overeager teachers are bound to abuse their privileges and many innocent kids will be accused of being psychopaths.
Shelby 6 - I disagree with you slightly however you make some good points. The psychopath identifying education could help teachers identify these suspects, however, it would also cause a large number of problems that we would much rather prevent, such as parents suing the county, non-psychopath kids being accused, etc.
Megan 12 - I agree with you fully. Eric's mocking of his father and his journal entries make it CLEAR that he was a psychopath. After mocking someone who was only on his side and claiming to want to "destroy humanity", he is clearly mentally unstable.
Tali-#6 I toatlly agree with you here. I think that teacher education on 'How to Spot the Psychopath in your Classroom' may do some good, but ultimately would be harmful. It's not like there are loads of psychopaths running around in schools, but if teachers are trained to look for them, they're probably going to be convinced that they're finding them.
ReplyDeleteMegan-#5 I agree that bullying is most of the time a response to something that the bully has to deal with in life. But, on the other hand, everyone has crap to deal with, but we all handle it differently. Some of us become the bully, but others become the loner. WE should keep an eye out for warning signs from everyone.
Alden-#3 I think you're correct in saying how the media redefined the word Columbine for the public, and we ran with it. Cullen didn't necessariyl mean to reinforce the connotation, but there's really no way to undo what people already think.
Kelsea-#9 I'm so with you on the reaction to the Cassie Bernall story being fake. I was kinda pissed when i found out that the inspiring story of a modern day Amercian martyr was really not true. I don't really understand how people could still hold on to the story and find comfort after tehy knew it was a lie.
Suraj-#11 By using Robyn, Eric was using Dylan. Supposedly Dylan was Eric's only real friend, his BEST friend; so how could he use him so easily? Because Eric was incapable of having friends, or any real emotional ties with anyone. Dylan wasn't Eric's freind, he was his unknowing and naiive follower. This to me is probably the saddest part of the whole thing.
I think it is very important for the teachers to be able to spot these kids and help them before its too late!
ReplyDeletexoxo,
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