Rememer to answer five questions and comment on five of your classmates' responses. Remember to follow the format for posting your answers and your comments.
1. In 'Vacant' we read of how the families learned of the deaths. Which of these stories affected you personally and why?
2. National polls taken after the attack listed a variety of causes contributing to the attack including violent movies, video games, Goth culture, lax gun laws, bullies, Satan and the parents. 85% of the public in a Gallup poll blamed the parents. What is your opinion of the list and the blaming of the parents?
3. At the beginning of 'Rush to Closure' we read that the Denver Post printed the headline 'Healing Begins' 36 hours after the attack. What effect do you think that this had? Do you think it hindered the healing of people who were still processing the attack?
4. Why do you think the heroic version of Danny Rorhbough's story was widely reported? Do you think that people find it easier to accept tragedies of this sort if there is something meaningful in a victim's last actions?
5. What is your opinion of the differences in the reactions to the attacks by Rev. Oudemulen, Rev. Kirsten, Rev. Marxhausen and Barb Lotz?
6. What did you learn about Dylan Klebold in the chapter 'Gifted Boy'? Do you believe his intellect made him feel different from others (and perhaps an outcast)? Do you think his anger management issues had implications for his eventual depression and violence?
7. What did you take away from the chapter 'Hour of Need'? Do you think Rev. Marxhausen acted as a good pastor to the Klebolds? What did you think of Dylan's memorial and the parish's reaction to it?
8. In 'Threesome' Cullen writes 'Dylan and Zack needed Eric. Someone to do the talking.' How does Cullen's description of their friendship resemble the relationship between Dick and Perry from In Cold Blood?
9. In 'Black' Cullen flashes back to Eric and Dylan's sophomore year. How does Cullen utilize this time shift?
10. In 'Media Crime' Cullen takes on the myths of the Trench Coat Mafia, Goth outcasts hunting down jocks and other myths. Do you feel this chapter helped clarify the motivations of the killers for you? Why do you think that the public continues to believe these myths?
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1. In 'Vacant' we read of how the families learned of the deaths. Which of these stories affected you personally and why?
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, Danny's story affected me the most. The fact that Cullen illustrates everything that Danny was set out to be makes me feel horrible because he didn't get to live. Danny had his future ahead of him, and because he had everything set out, I feel horrible that he didn't get to live and go forward with his dreams.
2. National polls taken after the attack listed a variety of causes contributing to the attack including violent movies, video games, Goth culture, lax gun laws, bullies, Satan and the parents. 85% of the public in a Gallup poll blamed the parents. What is your opinion of the list and the blaming of the parents?
ReplyDeleteMy opinion on the list is maybe it is true, maybe it is not. Even though there is a lot of evidence no one really knew why they did what they did, so therefore, they blame other things. Yes, violent video games do lead to things like that, but it isn't really sure. The blaming of the parents I disagree with. Yes, it is a parent's right to teach his or her child to lead the right path, but I also think there are rebellious teenagers out there that don't care what their parents really say, and kids like Eric made it impossible to really control. In the end, it wasn't the parents fault, but more of Eric and Dylan because they decided not to use what their parents had taught them, and chose to rebel.
3. At the beginning of 'Rush to Closure' we read that the Denver Post printed the headline 'Healing Begins' 36 hours after the attack. What effect do you think that this had? Do you think it hindered the healing of people who were still processing the attack?
ReplyDeleteI think this had a positive effect on the parents that lost their children. I think that it helped them be more peace with the event. On the other hand, with the survivors, I don't think it did them anything. I mean you can easily imagine that seeing someone shoot your friends or school mates wouldn't be something you would forget in a matter of 36 hours.
4. Why do you think the heroic version of Danny Rorhbough's story was widely reported? Do you think that people find it easier to accept tragedies of this sort if there is something meaningful in a victim's last actions?
ReplyDeleteI think Danny Rorhbough's heroic version was widely reported to hide the fact of how he really died. In some ways,people would see his death as a life risk he took to save others, and when that story was told, it made his death more significant, as bad as that sounds. Yes, in someways I think that if someone died doing something heroic, it is more meaningful because maybe doing something heroic might cause someone else to live. Others don't think that way, but think death as something horrible and something that can never be significant.
5. What is your opinion of the differences in the reactions to the attacks by Rev. Oudemulen, Rev. Kirsten, Rev. Marxhausen and Barb Lotz?
ReplyDeleteRev. Oudemulen's reaction was a bit too much. Just because a tragedy happened doesn't necessarily mean that Satan was trying to scare them or something.
Rev. Kristen's reaction was worse than Rev. Oudemulen's! He thought that it was spiritual warfare and was telling his church that the Apocalypse was under way and all these things. In my opinion, I don't think he should have said any of that because he wasn't really sure if the Apocalypse was around or not, so he was giving false information to his ministry.
Reverend Marxhausen, in my opinion wasn't caring like Barb Lotze. Yes, he lead a lot of denominations but he didn't think it was Satan, instead he thought more logically, which makes sense because I would think exactly the same way he would if I were in that situation.
I think Barb Lotze acted the best out of all of the Reverends, which is ironic because he wasn't even a Reverend. Out of all of the Reverends he is the most loving, and he even breaks a bit of the rules to see if anyone will come to Jesus. No, I don't think it was right for him to bend the rules, but I think the cares a lot, and that is easily shown when he says: They want to be loved, told that we're going to get through this together."
3. At the beginning of 'Rush to Closure' we read that the Denver Post printed the headline 'Healing Begins' 36 hours after the attack. What effect do you think that this had? Do you think it hindered the healing of people who were still processing the attack?
ReplyDeleteThe headline underestimated the effect that the massacre had on the families of the victims. It hindered the healing of some of the victims’ relatives simply because it neglects the long-term emotions resulting from the Columbine killings. Feelings of loss and grief would be far too strong to dissipate in a day and a half; many may not have healed from the emotional anguish years after the incident, especially people like Brian Rohrbough, whose only son Danny died at the hands of the shooters.
4. Why do you think the heroic version of Danny Rorhbough's story was widely reported? Do you think that people find it easier to accept tragedies of this sort if there is something meaningful in a victim's last actions?
ReplyDeleteThe heroic version of Danny’s story became popular because it intensified the tragedy of his death. This heroic story should actually make his death harder to accept, since it introduces the injustice of horrible things happening to good people. What the story does serve to do is give the victims’ families another reason to be infuriated with Eric and Dylan. The murderers’ killing a selfless hero would cause people to feel increased anger toward them and increased compassion for Danny.
1. In 'Vacant' we read of how the families learned of the deaths. Which of these stories affected you personally and why?
ReplyDeleteThe story of Cassie affected me the most. At the end of that story Dave Thomas told Bob Curnow, "I don't know how to tell you this." Bob responded with, "You don't have to. It's written on your face." This personally got to me because Bob just knew by the expression on Dave's face. The way Cullen tells this story made me feel some of his pain.
2. National polls taken after the attack listed a variety of causes contributing to the attack including violent movies, video games, Goth culture, lax gun laws, bullies, Satan and the parents. 85% of the public in a Gallup poll blamed the parents. What is your opinion of the list and the blaming of the parents?
ReplyDeleteI think that the list is somewhat relevant to the situation. If the laws on gun possession were stonger maybe the shooting wouldn't have occurred...but thats just a woulda, shoulda, coulda (if you know what i mean:). People will always find away around to getting weapons and thats just a fact about society(and thats what Dylan and Eric did). On the other hand I think that the parents do not deserve all the blame. Yes, maybe they should have been more alert, but what else do you want from them? Parents can't be beside their kids 24/7 and can't read their minds so i definitely don't think all the blame should be on them. Kids (well most of them) will do what they want and hide what the want to hide. Like Eric and Dylan they are individuals with their own thoughts. Dylan and Eric are the ONLY ones who decided to shoot and bomb up their school so therefore they should be the ONLY ones to take the blame.
2. National polls taken after the attack listed a variety of causes contributing to the attack including violent movies, video games, Goth culture, lax gun laws, bullies, Satan and the parents. 85% of the public in a Gallup poll blamed the parents. What is your opinion of the list and the blaming of the parents?
ReplyDeleteI can see where the people who took the polls are coming from, but you also have to look at where the parents are coming from. They cannot necessarrily be blamed for their child's behavious especially in a situation like this. For all we know, the killers showed no signs. Also, the lists are just stereotypes. Just because they enjoy certain music or movies, doesn't mean that that particular thing makes them start a shooting.
3. At the beginning of 'Rush to Closure' we read that the Denver Post printed the headline 'Healing Begins' 36 hours after the attack. What effect do you think that this had? Do you think it hindered the healing of people who were still processing the attack?
ReplyDeleteI think that this headline could have hurt the healing process in reality. Although it may seem like the healing has begun, there were still so many friends and families hurting. By seeing this headline they may have thought that people were losing care.
4. Why do you think the heroic version of Danny Rorhbough's story was widely reported? Do you think that people find it easier to accept tragedies of this sort if there is something meaningful in a victim's last actions?
ReplyDeleteDanny died a hero. The last part of his life was spent trying to save another. This could have made the tragedy a little easier to accept becuase it ended on somewhat of a high note. Danny did not die for nothing. He put himself in harms way to try and save someone else. This story was heroic and allowed the tragedy to be accepted a little more easily.
10. In 'Media Crime' Cullen takes on the myths of the Trench Coat Mafia, Goth outcasts hunting down jocks and other myths. Do you feel this chapter helped clarify the motivations of the killers for you? Why do you think that the public continues to believe these myths?
ReplyDeleteI think that the chapter definitely clarified Dylan and Erics motivations. As we know they were not outcasts, goths, or affiliated with the "trenchcoat mafia". I strongly believe that the public continued to believe these myths because they were scared to face the truth. Its an easy way out to say that the killers were outcasts who were tormented by the jocks and wanted revenge for having to deal with ignorant "meat-heads" and the "preps", but thats just dumb! They were never outcasts (maybe in their own minds) and they decided to murder their classmates because they were full of hate..not at one person, but at everyone. The scary truth is that they were social kids (especially Eric) with seemingly "normal" lives and thats the one thing that is hard to grasp.
8. In 'Threesome' Cullen writes 'Dylan and Zack needed Eric. Someone to do the talking.' How does Cullen's description of their friendship resemble the relationship between Dick and Perry from In Cold Blood?
ReplyDeleteFrom the very beginning of In Cold Blood, Dick and Perry had a very interesting relationship. I feel like the killers in Columbine had a similar relationship. Eric is established as the "one to do the talking." He was the leader. In In Cold Blood, that was Dick's role. Perry seemed to just follow along just as Dylan has.
3. At the beginning of 'Rush to Closure' we read that the Denver Post printed the headline 'Healing Begins' 36 hours after the attack. What effect do you think that this had? Do you think it hindered the healing of people who were still processing the attack?
ReplyDeleteI think that the Denver Post printing the headline "Healing Begins" soooooooo soon after the shooting was ridiculous!!!! People didn't even have time to actually sort out what had happened and some still didn't know where their friends and children were! I think it hindered their healing because they probably thought that the media wanted to hurry up and glaze over the situation.
Jordanna, you said...
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, Danny's story affected me the most. The fact that Cullen illustrates everything that Danny was set out to be makes me feel horrible because he didn't get to live. Danny had his future ahead of him, and because he had everything set out, I feel horrible that he didn't get to live and go forward with his dreams.
I completely agree with you. Danny did have a future planned out for himself and was going to be successful. It's hard to believe that he was so looking forward to all these things and then because of two boys, they were all gone.
Stephen, you said...
ReplyDeleteThe heroic version of Danny’s story became popular because it intensified the tragedy of his death. This heroic story should actually make his death harder to accept, since it introduces the injustice of horrible things happening to good people. What the story does serve to do is give the victims’ families another reason to be infuriated with Eric and Dylan. The murderers’ killing a selfless hero would cause people to feel increased anger toward them and increased compassion for Danny.
I agree with you on your point saying that it should make his death more difficult to accept. But at the same time, his life was lost for the purpose of saving another. He was a hero.
Jazmine, you said...
ReplyDeleteI think that the list is somewhat relevant to the situation. If the laws on gun possession were stonger maybe the shooting wouldn't have occurred...but thats just a woulda, shoulda, coulda (if you know what i mean:). People will always find away around to getting weapons and thats just a fact about society(and thats what Dylan and Eric did). On the other hand I think that the parents do not deserve all the blame. Yes, maybe they should have been more alert, but what else do you want from them? Parents can't be beside their kids 24/7 and can't read their minds so i definitely don't think all the blame should be on them. Kids (well most of them) will do what they want and hide what the want to hide. Like Eric and Dylan they are individuals with their own thoughts. Dylan and Eric are the ONLY ones who decided to shoot and bomb up their school so therefore they should be the ONLY ones to take the blame.
I also think that Eric and Dylan should be the only ones to take the blame! But I also see how they could have been influenced by this list of things. But these things did not commit the crime. The boys did.
1. In 'Vacant' we read of how the families learned of the deaths. Which of these stories affected you personally and why?
ReplyDeleteThe part when the Rohrbough family learned about Danny's death struck me. The way Danny's life was portrayed and the things he would have done if he were still alive definitely pulled at my heart strings. He had soooo many things going for him, but unfortunately they will never be fullfilled.
Jazmine, you said...
ReplyDeleteI think that the Denver Post printing the headline "Healing Begins" soooooooo soon after the shooting was ridiculous!!!! People didn't even have time to actually sort out what had happened and some still didn't know where their friends and children were! I think it hindered their healing because they probably thought that the media wanted to hurry up and glaze over the situation.
Honestly, I didn't realize how ridiculous the posting really was as I was reading it. But then I continued reading the stories and realized how the families must have felt. You're right. They probably thought the media was only in a hurry to move on the next big thing.
Jazmine, you said...
ReplyDeleteI think that the chapter definitely clarified Dylan and Erics motivations. As we know they were not outcasts, goths, or affiliated with the "trenchcoat mafia". I strongly believe that the public continued to believe these myths because they were scared to face the truth. Its an easy way out to say that the killers were outcasts who were tormented by the jocks and wanted revenge for having to deal with ignorant "meat-heads" and the "preps", but thats just dumb! They were never outcasts (maybe in their own minds) and they decided to murder their classmates because they were full of hate..not at one person, but at everyone. The scary truth is that they were social kids (especially Eric) with seemingly "normal" lives and thats the one thing that is hard to grasp.
You are so right about them not being portrayed as outcasts. That could have been something that they believed about themselves. And maybe the public was scared to face the truth. The truth that it's not always the same "types of people" that do those things. Anyone can do it for any reason.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteChanan, you said...
ReplyDeleteDanny died a hero. The last part of his life was spent trying to save another. This could have made the tragedy a little easier to accept becuase it ended on somewhat of a high note. Danny did not die for nothing. He put himself in harms way to try and save someone else. This story was heroic and allowed the tragedy to be accepted a little more easily.
I 100% agree with you! I think that the media saying that Danny died while helping others helped people deal with his death. It helped them cope which is what everyone needed to do at the time.
8. In 'Threesome' Cullen writes 'Dylan and Zack needed Eric. Someone to do the talking.' How does Cullen's description of their friendship resemble the relationship between Dick and Perry from In Cold Blood?
ReplyDeleteIn In cold Blood, Perry was the one who always "needed" Dick to do all the talking. Thats because Dick was a good talker. He could conjure up a conversation and convence people to believe the most obsurd things. Eric was definitely Dick in this situation. He did all the talking for Dylan and Zack and the two relied on him.
Channan said...
ReplyDeleteThe story of Cassie affected me the most. At the end of that story Dave Thomas told Bob Curnow, "I don't know how to tell you this." Bob responded with, "You don't have to. It's written on your face." This personally got to me because Bob just knew by the expression on Dave's face. The way Cullen tells this story made me feel some of his pain.
For me it was Danny's, but I can totally see where you are coming from! It did bring some pain. I think all of the deaths brought pain, because it's death! It's gonna bring pain!!
Jazmine said...
ReplyDeleteThe part when the Rohrbough family learned about Danny's death struck me. The way Danny's life was portrayed and the things he would have done if he were still alive definitely pulled at my heart strings. He had soooo many things going for him, but unfortunately they will never be fullfilled.
I totally agree with you! As a matter of fact, I think the exact same way! I think Danny's story affected me the most too, and it also pulled on my heart strings!
Channan said...
ReplyDeleteFrom the very beginning of In Cold Blood, Dick and Perry had a very interesting relationship. I feel like the killers in Columbine had a similar relationship. Eric is established as the "one to do the talking." He was the leader. In In Cold Blood, that was Dick's role. Perry seemed to just follow along just as Dylan has.
I feel the same way. I also think that Eric was the leader in the friendship. He was the one that made the plans up and made sure they were followed. I also think Dylan was the "sidekick" like Perry was.
Chanan you said...
ReplyDeleteDanny died a hero. The last part of his life was spent trying to save another. This could have made the tragedy a little easier to accept becuase it ended on somewhat of a high note. Danny did not die for nothing. He put himself in harms way to try and save someone else. This story was heroic and allowed the tragedy to be accepted a little more easily.
Yes, I agree with you on this note. Making the tragedy a little easier by making up a story that he did something heroic kind of makes his death a little easier to accept.
Jazmine said...
ReplyDeleteI think that the Denver Post printing the headline "Healing Begins" soooooooo soon after the shooting was ridiculous!!!! People didn't even have time to actually sort out what had happened and some still didn't know where their friends and children were! I think it hindered their healing because they probably thought that the media wanted to hurry up and glaze over the situation.
I completely agree with you! It was printed really early after the shooting. Yeah, it did hinder their healing, but the survivors didn't get over it that fast! No human being does!
6. What did you learn about Dylan Klebold in the chapter 'Gifted Boy'? Do you believe his intellect made him feel different from others (and perhaps an outcast)? Do you think his anger management issues had implications for his eventual depression and violence?
ReplyDeleteI learned that Dylan was born twenty years (to the day) before the 9/11 attacks, started school a year early because of his intelligence, and had to make a “frightening transition” (128) between a gifted program in elementary school to a larger middle school with no gifted program. His intellect alone did not make him feel different. Rather, his outbursts of emotion seem to have been the primary aspect of his personality that separated him from the other boys, who tended to be stoic. Anger management issues do tend to make people perform violent acts, but the main factor that led Dylan to violence was his lack of self-confidence, since he let Eric plan the event and lead him into murder.
Chanan, you said
ReplyDelete"Danny died a hero. The last part of his life was spent trying to save another. This could have made the tragedy a little easier to accept becuase it ended on somewhat of a high note. Danny did not die for nothing. He put himself in harms way to try and save someone else. This story was heroic and allowed the tragedy to be accepted a little more easily."
I'm just making sure you understand that "the story was later disproved" (115) and actually wasn't true. When you begin with "Danny died a hero," it makes me think that you believe the legend to be true. I can see your point that, according to the story, "Danny did not die for nothing," but instead of making his death easier to accept, I thought that the "hero" story made Danny's death even more tragic and harder to accept.
Jordanna, you said
ReplyDelete"In my opinion, Danny's story affected me the most. The fact that Cullen illustrates everything that Danny was set out to be makes me feel horrible because he didn't get to live. Danny had his future ahead of him, and because he had everything set out, I feel horrible that he didn't get to live and go forward with his dreams."
Great answer! This reminds me of In Cold Blood, when Truman Capote begins the book by discussing the futures of the Clutters had they not been killed. By placing Danny's "hopes and dreams" after the actual murders, Dave Cullen emphasizes the feelings of loss and tragedy experienced by Brian after he found out that Danny had been killed.
Jordanna, you said
ReplyDelete"I think Danny Rorhbough's heroic version was widely reported to hide the fact of how he really died. In some ways,people would see his death as a life risk he took to save others, and when that story was told, it made his death more significant, as bad as that sounds. Yes, in someways I think that if someone died doing something heroic, it is more meaningful because maybe doing something heroic might cause someone else to live. Others don't think that way, but think death as something horrible and something that can never be significant."
I definitely think the story makes Danny's death seem more tragic and more significant because it makes people believe that he died to save others. Stories about Christian martyrs in the Columbine massacre probably originated for the same reason: to make certain Columbine deaths seem "special."
1. In 'Vacant' we read of how the families learned of the deaths. Which of these stories affected you personally and why?
ReplyDeleteI think that Cassie's story affected me the most. Her parents, especially her mom, kept trying to tell themselves she was alive even though they had not heard from her. It was just really sad to know how much they wanted her to be alive and ok, and then find out that she had been one of the victims.
2. National polls taken after the attack listed a variety of causes contributing to the attack including violent movies, video games, Goth culture, lax gun laws, bullies, Satan and the parents. 85% of the public in a Gallup poll blamed the parents. What is your opinion of the list and the blaming of the parents?
ReplyDeleteAny of these things could have been a contributing factor to the attack, but no one can know that for sure. THese are just assumptions people have to try to find out why this shooting occured. Also, I dont think that the parents should have the blame put on them. Parents can only control their kids so much, and if the kids were not showing any signs of this kind of behavior, how would the parents know?
3. At the beginning of 'Rush to Closure' we read that the Denver Post printed the headline 'Healing Begins' 36 hours after the attack. What effect do you think that this had? Do you think it hindered the healing of people who were still processing the attack?
ReplyDeleteI dont think it had a very good effect on the people and families involved in this attack. People were not healing yet, it had only been a day and a half since they went through a shotting where some of their classmates were shot and some killed. This is not something that goes away in a few days. It would take weeks, or months and this headline would not have helped the healing process for these people.
9. In 'Black' Cullen flashes back to Eric and Dylan's sophomore year. How does Cullen utilize this time shift?
ReplyDeleteCullen uses the time shift to show how Eric changed from a preppy dork to a nonconformist. Unfortunately, he became “boisterous, moody, and aggressive,” so this change may have been partially responsible for his desire to kill his schoolmates two years later. Another use Cullen makes of the time shift is to debunk two myths. He explains that Eric and Dylan had “far more friends than the average adolescent” (147), so they were not outcasts. In addition, the two killers were not members of the Trench Coat Mafia; they knew some of the kids that were members, and Eric and Chris Morris became friends, but Eric and Dylan did not actually join the TCM. One thing that slightly troubles me is that my sophomore year (last year) is when I started having more ideas and “expressing them with confidence” (146), but, then again, I know this is guilt by association.
Elizabeth, you said
ReplyDelete"I think that Cassie's story affected me the most. Her parents, especially her mom, kept trying to tell themselves she was alive even though they had not heard from her. It was just really sad to know how much they wanted her to be alive and ok, and then find out that she had been one of the victims."
Cassie's story, I do agree, was very touching. I do feel bad for Misty, who could not bear to accept that Cassie was dead and had believed that Cassie would come home on the nonexistent last bus. Misty's anger when she finds out that Cassie was dead for sure shows how much she loved her daughter and, in addition, that Eric and Dylan had no consideration at all for the families of their schoolmates.
2. National polls taken after the attack listed a variety of causes contributing to the attack including violent movies, video games, Goth culture, lax gun laws, bullies, Satan and the parents. 85% of the public in a Gallup poll blamed the parents. What is your opinion of the list and the blaming of the parents?
ReplyDeleteWhile violent games and influences from fellow teenagers can affect students, the right upbringing is certainly a factor. Even the smallest events in a child's life can affect them in the long run; however, the parents do not deserve 85% of the blame. Students do need role models whom they can relate to, a characteristic some parents do not possess. Permissive gun laws and the influence from the Trench Coat Mafia definitely affected Dylan and Eric, but the boys' upbringing could have deeply affected their long-term personality.
1. In 'Vacant' we read of how the families learned of the deaths. Which of these stories affected you personally and why?
ReplyDeleteThe story that affect me was Danny Rohrbough's dad, Brian Rohrbough because no one ever came to tell him. He learned from the media and also danny was all that he had left. I thought his was the worst because of that. Brian lost the only thing that mattered to him.
2. National polls taken after the attack listed a variety of causes contributing to the attack including violent movies, video games, Goth culture, lax gun laws, bullies, Satan and the parents. 85% of the public in a Gallup poll blamed the parents. What is your opinion of the list and the blaming of the parents?
ReplyDeletealot of the things on the list can be discredited like bullies or goth culture seeing as the boys weren't goth or being bullied. the lax gun laws seems to be a big contributor to the attack since if the boys couldn't have gotten the guns, this maybe wouldn't have happened. the parents shouldn't be blamed for this though. i suppose how a child is raised is an important factor in their life but from how they were raised, they seemed to be brought up normal. also how can you blame someone's parents for their actions? you can blame the parents for possibly their thoughts or morals but everyone is responsible for their own actions
4. Why do you think the heroic version of Danny Rorhbough's story was widely reported? Do you think that people find it easier to accept tragedies of this sort if there is something meaningful in a victim's last actions?
ReplyDeletebecause a heroic deed and death is more entertaining and is read or watched more in the media as opposed to just a death.people find it easier because it gives meaning to the person's death and people look at it and think 'oh that's sad well at least they...' and they look at the 'bright side' of the tragedy instead of just focusing on the death
6. What did you learn about Dylan Klebold in the chapter 'Gifted Boy'? Do you believe his intellect made him feel different from others (and perhaps an outcast)? Do you think his anger management issues had implications for his eventual depression and violence?
ReplyDeletei learned about how brilliant he was and just how much of a waste his mind was. i believe that when he got to middle school it did make him feel different from others because he was suddenly cast into it and couldn't fall back on a safe environment like the honors program. his anger issues does seem to contribute to his violent behavior but didn't necessarily have to lead to it. if he had been helped instead of 'expected to grow out of it' it could have been prevented.
7. What did you take away from the chapter 'Hour of Need'? Do you think Rev. Marxhausen acted as a good pastor to the Klebolds? What did you think of Dylan's memorial and the parish's reaction to it?
ReplyDeletei took away the thought that Rev. Marxhausen was a good man for letting the Klebolds hold their ceremony their. He was a very good pastor in how he treated them just like someone would anyone who just lost someone. He treated like normal people. I thought dylan's memorial was very sad because even though he was a murderer, he was still just a child and he was dead. the parish's reaction that agreed with it was in my view the right choice. the Klebolds shouldn't have been treated badly just because their son was a murderer and i think the other half of the parish should've realized that.
Jazmine said...
ReplyDelete1. In 'Vacant' we read of how the families learned of the deaths. Which of these stories affected you personally and why?
The part when the Rohrbough family learned about Danny's death struck me. The way Danny's life was portrayed and the things he would have done if he were still alive definitely pulled at my heart strings. He had soooo many things going for him, but unfortunately they will never be fullfilled.
i completely agree with you. i think one of the worst parts about his death was all the wasted potential and also how he had to leave behind his poor lonely father
Jordanna said...
ReplyDelete2. National polls taken after the attack listed a variety of causes contributing to the attack including violent movies, video games, Goth culture, lax gun laws, bullies, Satan and the parents. 85% of the public in a Gallup poll blamed the parents. What is your opinion of the list and the blaming of the parents?
My opinion on the list is maybe it is true, maybe it is not. Even though there is a lot of evidence no one really knew why they did what they did, so therefore, they blame other things. Yes, violent video games do lead to things like that, but it isn't really sure. The blaming of the parents I disagree with. Yes, it is a parent's right to teach his or her child to lead the right path, but I also think there are rebellious teenagers out there that don't care what their parents really say, and kids like Eric made it impossible to really control. In the end, it wasn't the parents fault, but more of Eric and Dylan because they decided not to use what their parents had taught them, and chose to rebel.
i agree with your view on the blaming of the parents. also i never really thought of how you viewed the list but i agree that it makes sense. we can't judge what contributed to it because no one really knows why they did it
Chanan said...
ReplyDelete3. At the beginning of 'Rush to Closure' we read that the Denver Post printed the headline 'Healing Begins' 36 hours after the attack. What effect do you think that this had? Do you think it hindered the healing of people who were still processing the attack?
I think that this headline could have hurt the healing process in reality. Although it may seem like the healing has begun, there were still so many friends and families hurting. By seeing this headline they may have thought that people were losing care.
i agree with you entirely and i think that they headline probably really devastated some people's healing process by making them feel rushed or left behind.
5. What is your opinion of the differences in the reactions to the attacks by Rev. Oudemulen, Rev. Kirsten, Rev. Marxhausen and Barb Lotz?
ReplyDeleteHonestly, I agreed most with Marxhausen's interpretation based solely on the fact that he wanted to address the issue head on whereas others were focused on pinning the whole thing on Satan. He seemed to want to find answers quicker and put the blame on those directly responsible for the actions at Columbine.
Jazmine said...
ReplyDelete8. In 'Threesome' Cullen writes 'Dylan and Zack needed Eric. Someone to do the talking.' How does Cullen's description of their friendship resemble the relationship between Dick and Perry from In Cold Blood?
In In cold Blood, Perry was the one who always "needed" Dick to do all the talking. Thats because Dick was a good talker. He could conjure up a conversation and convence people to believe the most obsurd things. Eric was definitely Dick in this situation. He did all the talking for Dylan and Zack and the two relied on him.
i agree with you and i also think it's eerie how these two different murder pairs match so well. it makes me wonder if all murder pairs have this same personality and structure
Clay said...
ReplyDelete2. National polls taken after the attack listed a variety of causes contributing to the attack including violent movies, video games, Goth culture, lax gun laws, bullies, Satan and the parents. 85% of the public in a Gallup poll blamed the parents. What is your opinion of the list and the blaming of the parents?
While violent games and influences from fellow teenagers can affect students, the right upbringing is certainly a factor. Even the smallest events in a child's life can affect them in the long run; however, the parents do not deserve 85% of the blame. Students do need role models whom they can relate to, a characteristic some parents do not possess. Permissive gun laws and the influence from the Trench Coat Mafia definitely affected Dylan and Eric, but the boys' upbringing could have deeply affected their long-term personality.
i agree that some blame could be blamed on violent games and student influences and that some upbringing could affect their personalities but i think it goes a bit deeper than that. these boys personalities seemed to just be mental problems that they may have suffered from
2. National polls taken after the attack listed a variety of causes contributing to the attack including violent movies, video games, Goth culture, lax gun laws, bullies, Satan and the parents. 85% of the public in a Gallup poll blamed the parents. What is your opinion of the list and the blaming of the parents?
ReplyDeleteParents have a strong impact on the lives of their kids. In this case, the parents, the Klebolds and Harrises, were completely in the dark about the pipe bombs and guns. It's not too hard to hide your purchase of a book, even one as influential and disturbing as "The Anarchist Cookbook."
3. At the beginning of 'Rush to Closure' we read that the Denver Post printed the headline 'Healing Begins' 36 hours after the attack. What effect do you think that this had? Do you think it hindered the healing of people who were still processing the attack?
ReplyDeleteMany people could have reacted badly to such an outlandish headline. In such an influential paper as the Denver Post, many people would be reading it, when in reality the bleeding hadn't ceased. The impressions people could have gathered could have been used to downplay such a horrific event.
4. Why do you think the heroic version of Danny Rorhbough's story was widely reported? Do you think that people find it easier to accept tragedies of this sort if there is something meaningful in a victim's last actions?
ReplyDeletePeople are very quick to justify just about anything. in this case, Danny's story was twisted to seem heroic, but doesn't replace the actions that actually took place. Either way Danny is dead. No matter how people see him, his legacy will always be left at Columbine.
1. In 'Vacant' we read of how the families learned of the deaths. Which of these stories affected you personally and why?
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, Linda Sanders' reaction to her husbands death hit me hardest. The fact that she threw the phone down really impacted how I felt Dave meant to her. Anytime someone passes, emotions will rain down, but in this case it was as if someone opened up the floodgates.
Chana, you said...
ReplyDeleteThe story of Cassie affected me the most. At the end of that story Dave Thomas told Bob Curnow, "I don't know how to tell you this." Bob responded with, "You don't have to. It's written on your face." This personally got to me because Bob just knew by the expression on Dave's face. The way Cullen tells this story made me feel some of his pain.
I agree that this particular case was especially hard to bear. Based on the fact that the family had the idea that he was dead really gave me a sense that they were feeding off of false hope.
Jazmine, you said...
ReplyDeleteIn In cold Blood, Perry was the one who always "needed" Dick to do all the talking. Thats because Dick was a good talker. He could conjure up a conversation and convence people to believe the most obsurd things. Eric was definitely Dick in this situation. He did all the talking for Dylan and Zack and the two relied on him.
I agree with you but beyond that, Perry's and Dylan's hesitations in committing the respective crimes also matches up well. As Khayl said, its very eerie.
Khayl, you said...
ReplyDeletei took away the thought that Rev. Marxhausen was a good man for letting the Klebolds hold their ceremony their. He was a very good pastor in how he treated them just like someone would anyone who just lost someone. He treated like normal people. I thought dylan's memorial was very sad because even though he was a murderer, he was still just a child and he was dead. the parish's reaction that agreed with it was in my view the right choice. the Klebolds shouldn't have been treated badly just because their son was a murderer and i think the other half of the parish should've realized that.
I agree with you that everyone has a right to a proper funeral, no matter the person's character. Just because Dylan's legacy will be as a murderer, it's good to see that for one last day he could be treated as a human being.
Jordanna, you said...
ReplyDeleteI think Danny Rorhbough's heroic version was widely reported to hide the fact of how he really died. In some ways,people would see his death as a life risk he took to save others, and when that story was told, it made his death more significant, as bad as that sounds. Yes, in someways I think that if someone died doing something heroic, it is more meaningful because maybe doing something heroic might cause someone else to live. Others don't think that way, but think death as something horrible and something that can never be significant.
I agree with you based on your mentioning that people respond better to heroics. How would people respond if one of the students had locked himself in a room to avoid gunfire without letting other students in? He/she would've gone down in history as a coward.
Jordanna, you said...
ReplyDelete5. What is your opinion of the differences in the reactions to the attacks by Rev. Oudemulen, Rev. Kirsten, Rev. Marxhausen and Barb Lotz?
Rev. Oudemulen's reaction was a bit too much. Just because a tragedy happened doesn't necessarily mean that Satan was trying to scare them or something.
Rev. Kristen's reaction was worse than Rev. Oudemulen's! He thought that it was spiritual warfare and was telling his church that the Apocalypse was under way and all these things. In my opinion, I don't think he should have said any of that because he wasn't really sure if the Apocalypse was around or not, so he was giving false information to his ministry.
Reverend Marxhausen, in my opinion wasn't caring like Barb Lotze. Yes, he lead a lot of denominations but he didn't think it was Satan, instead he thought more logically, which makes sense because I would think exactly the same way he would if I were in that situation.I think Barb Lotze acted the best out of all of the Reverends, which is ironic because he wasn't even a Reverend. Out of all of the Reverends he is the most loving, and he even breaks a bit of the rules to see if anyone will come to Jesus. No, I don't think it was right for him to bend the rules, but I think the cares a lot, and that is easily shown when he says: They want to be loved, told that we're going to get through this together."
I was thinking the exact same thing about the reverends! i think that they went a little overboard with their rants about the apocalypse and how Satan is among them. I think that Barb Lotze definitely did a better job (even though he wasn't a rev.) because his methods of uniting the community during that stressful and sad time seemed help most of the many kids and adults.
Khayl, you said...
ReplyDeletei learned about how brilliant he was and just how much of a waste his mind was. i believe that when he got to middle school it did make him feel different from others because he was suddenly cast into it and couldn't fall back on a safe environment like the honors program. his anger issues does seem to contribute to his violent behavior but didn't necessarily have to lead to it. if he had been helped instead of 'expected to grow out of it' it could have been prevented.
I agree completely. If Dylan could have been helped instead of looked upon as though he could overcome it, he could've been saved, leading to the salvation of dozens of other students influenced by his underlying anger.
Khayl, you said...
ReplyDeletei learned about how brilliant he was and just how much of a waste his mind was. i believe that when he got to middle school it did make him feel different from others because he was suddenly cast into it and couldn't fall back on a safe environment like the honors program. his anger issues does seem to contribute to his violent behavior but didn't necessarily have to lead to it. if he had been helped instead of 'expected to grow out of it' it could have been prevented.
I absolutely agree with you on that. I feel that Dylan really had a rough time transitioning from his honors/gifted programs to 'regular' school. He was put out of his comfort zone (like when his dad says he went from "cradle to reality"). I think that if Dylan would have been helped with his sudden outbursts that he occasionally had maybe it wouldn't have escalated and could have prevented the killings...but like a said before, thats a whole lot of woulda, shoulda, couldas.
1. In 'Vacant' we read of how the families learned of the deaths. Which of these stories affected you personally and why?
ReplyDeleteI was affected the most by Danny's story because of the way his father saw his own son's dead body in a newspaper before he could even see it himself. I found this heartbreaking and wrong. Danny's father had a right to know about his son's death.
Elizabeth, you said...
ReplyDeleteI dont think it had a very good effect on the people and families involved in this attack. People were not healing yet, it had only been a day and a half since they went through a shotting where some of their classmates were shot and some killed. This is not something that goes away in a few days. It would take weeks, or months and this headline would not have helped the healing process for these people.
Absolutely! I think that the community wasn't even near the process of healing yet and the massacre would definitely take a very long time to get over. Remember that loved ones were lost and thats not easy to get over in 36 hours!
2. National polls taken after the attack listed a variety of causes contributing to the attack including violent movies, video games, Goth culture, lax gun laws, bullies, Satan and the parents. 85% of the public in a Gallup poll blamed the parents. What is your opinion of the list and the blaming of the parents?
ReplyDeleteMy opinion of the list is that it is ridiculous. I don't think any of those things would have caused the killings. I feel that it is crazy to think that. I kind of agree with the poll and think that the parents may have had a small part in the fault of the killings because it is the parents job tto raise their child and maybe they didn't do a good enough job in raising Eric and Dylan. Then again, I definitely don't think it was completely the parent's fault for what happened and other factors need to be taken into account such as maybe mental problems.
4. Why do you think the heroic version of Danny Rorhbough's story was widely reported? Do you think that people find it easier to accept tragedies of this sort if there is something meaningful in a victim's last actions?
ReplyDeleteI believe the heroic version of Danny's story was reported to make people believe that Danny didn't die without a name for himself. I definitely think that people find it easier to accept tragedies in these instances because they feel that death is easier to accept when they know the victim has done something worthy of living an entire life.
Chanan, you said...
ReplyDeleteThe story of Cassie affected me the most. At the end of that story Dave Thomas told Bob Curnow, "I don't know how to tell you this." Bob responded with, "You don't have to. It's written on your face." This personally got to me because Bob just knew by the expression on Dave's face. The way Cullen tells this story made me feel some of his pain.
In this case I said that Danny's story hit me the most, but i can definitely see where your coming from. I think that the Bernall family already had a feeling that Cassie was gone and the look on Curnow's face proved it to be true.
6. What did you learn about Dylan Klebold in the chapter 'Gifted Boy'? Do you believe his intellect made him feel different from others (and perhaps an outcast)? Do you think his anger management issues had implications for his eventual depression and violence?
ReplyDeleteI learned that Dylan is a good natured person (when he likes to go fishing and just enjoy nature)and that his issues keep him from being a completely normal teenager. I think these issues of Dylan definitely had something to do with what happened. I think Dylan's "smarts" probably made him feel out of place at times but I do not believe that he felt like an outcast because of this.
9. In 'Black' Cullen flashes back to Eric and Dylan's sophomore year. How does Cullen utilize this time shift?
ReplyDeleteCullen utilizes this time shift to show thhe changes Dylan and Eric experienced...maybe to help better understand why they were the way they were when the massacre occured. 'Black' shows how Eric and Dylan LIKED to be different and this possibly tellls us a little something about why they did what they did.
Jordanna you said...
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, Danny's story affected me the most. The fact that Cullen illustrates everything that Danny was set out to be makes me feel horrible because he didn't get to live. Danny had his future ahead of him, and because he had everything set out, I feel horrible that he didn't get to live and go forward with his dreams.
I completely agree with you and I also think that it is a tragic story, knowing that Danny had so much ahead of him and that he was enjoying the life he was living.
Chanan you said...
ReplyDeleteI can see where the people who took the polls are coming from, but you also have to look at where the parents are coming from. They cannot necessarrily be blamed for their child's behavious especially in a situation like this. For all we know, the killers showed no signs. Also, the lists are just stereotypes. Just because they enjoy certain music or movies, doesn't mean that that particular thing makes them start a shooting.
I agree with you when you say that the lists are just stereotypes. I also believe that it is unfair to say that these things would cause Dylan and Eric to do this awful thinng. I already wrote my response to this question about the parents and you've made me sort of change my mind about whhat I said. I said it was mainly the parents fault for raising their children this way but after reading your post I somewhat agree with you whhen you say that the parents cannot possible be blamed for all of this.
Jazmine you said...
ReplyDeleteI think that the Denver Post printing the headline "Healing Begins" soooooooo soon after the shooting was ridiculous!!!! People didn't even have time to actually sort out what had happened and some still didn't know where their friends and children were! I think it hindered their healing because they probably thought that the media wanted to hurry up and glaze over the situation.
I completely agree with you. I think it was way too soon after for the media to post that headline. The people trying to heal were then feelling rushed and didn't know how to react to that headline.
4. Why do you think the heroic version of Danny Rorhbough's story was widely reported? Do you think that people find it easier to accept tragedies of this sort if there is something meaningful in a victim's last actions?
ReplyDeleteNo one likes a sad and uneventful ending. The media's heroic version of Danny's death would change that image right away, and also become a more popular story. It's not as though those who heard the truth about Danny's death would feel any less mournful if they knew the truth. But the media is more worried about their audience (and income) rather than a less exciting tragedy.
Khayl you said...
ReplyDeletei learned about how brilliant he was and just how much of a waste his mind was. i believe that when he got to middle school it did make him feel different from others because he was suddenly cast into it and couldn't fall back on a safe environment like the honors program. his anger issues does seem to contribute to his violent behavior but didn't necessarily have to lead to it. if he had been helped instead of 'expected to grow out of it' it could have been prevented.
I agree with you and also learned how smart Dylan was. I sort of have to disagree with you and say that Dylan's issues probably had a bigger impact on what happened than we see right now.
Stuart you said...
ReplyDeletePeople are very quick to justify just about anything. in this case, Danny's story was twisted to seem heroic, but doesn't replace the actions that actually took place. Either way Danny is dead. No matter how people see him, his legacy will always be left at Columbine.
This is a very interesting way to look at it and I like it! I never thought of it in this way. Danny still has a story at Columbine no matter what it is that is being told.
1. In 'Vacant' we read of how the families learned of the deaths. Which of these stories affected you personally and why?
ReplyDeleteThe anecdote about how Brian Rohrbough found out about Danny affected me the most personally. That Brian had to find out about his son’s death through the news paper was terrible. It was made worse that he didn’t even find out through an impersonal list of names- he actually saw his dead son lying on the ground in a pool of his own blood! In the newspaper! It is made all the more tragic by Cullen’s description of Danny. It just seems like such a waste of life. Danny had plans, loves, joys, and happiness. There is no cosmic reason for his death; it is pointless, brutal, and just tragic. Then Brian can’t even collect the body. Danny lays out in snow and cold; it is the ultimate insult to Brian. He not only cannot protect his son from the killers, he couldn’t even protect his son in death from the elements.
2. National polls taken after the attack listed a variety of causes contributing to the attack including violent movies, video games, Goth culture, lax gun laws, bullies, Satan and the parents. 85% of the public in a Gallup poll blamed the parents. What is your opinion of the list and the blaming of the parents?
ReplyDeleteIt is far too easy to blame the obvious, but wrong, causes of the massacre. These reasons are not just incorrect, but potentially harmful. For example, when the media blamed the goth culture for Eric and Dylan’s actions, innocent teenagers were harassed (even more than they already were before). While many of the reasons may have contributed to why Eric and Dylan committed the crime, none of them were the real reason, and unless society worked on correcting the actual cause of the tragedy, there can be no progress. I also don’t agree with blaming the parents. While I agree that there is probably much more that they could have done to prevent the tragedy, it still isn’t right to judge them. Many of the people passing judgment on the Klebolds and the Harrises are not necessarily model parents themselves. It is hypocritical to call them bad people just because your own children turned out alright. That being said, I also feel that they have some responsibility to bear for the tragedy, but I’m sure that they feel guilty. The cross you make yourself bear is often much heavier than anything any court would give you.
3. At the beginning of 'Rush to Closure' we read that the Denver Post printed the headline 'Healing Begins' 36 hours after the attack. What effect do you think that this had? Do you think it hindered the healing of people who were still processing the attack?
ReplyDeleteI think that it is not only inaccurate but also irresponsible to post on a news station that “Healing Begins” in Columbine when there were still bodies lying on the ground in front of the school (Or had they been removed by then? No matter). People were still coming to terms with what had happened- still trying to comprehend it. They were nowhere near the healing stage. The kids in Columbine as well as their parents and their entire community were in a daze. The boys wouldn’t cry and the girls were broken up. It would have been very easy for them to internalize their emotions and bottle them up rather than deal with them in a healthy way. By printing that the healing was starting, the newspaper was encouraging the citizens to forget what had happened to them and not go through the natural grieving process. It was like saying: “Alright, Columbine is old news, start getting over it.” It hadn’t even been two full days after the incident that the Denver Post printed the article- how could anyone have started to heal?
4. Why do you think the heroic version of Danny Rorhbough's story was widely reported? Do you think that people find it easier to accept tragedies of this sort if there is something meaningful in a victim's last actions?
ReplyDeleteIt is much easier for people to think that a victim of a violent murder had acted like a hero before their death. Not only is there a pressure from society to act honorably and “manly”, but it also gives meaning to their death. He died so that others could live, apparently. His friends and parents could find comfort in the fact that something came out of his death, that there was tangible evidence that Danny wasn’t just a victim; he was a hero. Acknowledging that his death was meaningless, and unnecessary stings. With the “hero” story we can say: “Why did Danny die? He died so that his friends could live!”, but without that story we have no answer. Why did Danny die? Because a couple of psychopathic kids decided that they wanted to go out with a bang. There is no meaning, no point, no justification, and that makes the event so much more tragic.
6. What did you learn about Dylan Klebold in the chapter 'Gifted Boy'? Do you believe his intellect made him feel different from others (and perhaps an outcast)? Do you think his anger management issues had implications for his eventual depression and violence?
ReplyDeleteThis chapter is very interesting because it shows that Dylan was a very intelligent youth who was capable of knowing intellectually that what he did was wrong. He had a lot of other alternatives and could have gone to college. At this point, he appears to enjoy life and not have any fantasies of living alone without civilization, like Eric does. It is very possible though that because he was so smart he felt that he couldn’t relate to many people. His intellectualism could have prevented him from making many friends among people who he considered to be less intelligent than he was. This feeling of being an outcast (and possibly feeling superior to his peers), coupled with his occasional bursts of uncontrollable rage is a bad equation. Without a lot of anger therapy and personal reflection there’s no way that Dylan could have gone too long without an explosion.
Jordanna said…
ReplyDeleteI think this had a positive effect on the parents that lost their children. I think that it helped them be more peace with the event. On the other hand, with the survivors, I don't think it did them anything. I mean you can easily imagine that seeing someone shoot your friends or school mates wouldn't be something you would forget in a matter of 36 hours.
It’s interesting that you have this opinion, because we answered many of the same questions and out answers were very similar for each of them. This one we disagree with almost completely though. I feel like the posting of this headline was detrimental for the victims of the event especially, but certainly for the parents as well. Society expects them to start healing a day and a half after their children had been brutally murdered in school? There’s no way in my mind that this could have been positive- many parents (I believe) hadn’t even seen their children’s bodies yet. The only thing that article could accomplish was to rush the healing process and contribute to denial.
Jasmine said...
ReplyDeleteNo one likes a sad and uneventful ending. The media's heroic version of Danny's death would change that image right away, and also become a more popular story. It's not as though those who heard the truth about Danny's death would feel any less mournful if they knew the truth. But the media is more worried about their audience (and income) rather than a less exciting tragedy.
This is a very good point. I was thinking along the lines of comforting the people who knew him- it is more comforting to think that your friend died a hero than to think of his death as meaningless. You bring up a good point though by mentioning media greed. I'm sure that a story about a high-school hero, giving up his own life for his friends', sells much better than the truth. It also brings up the point of the media's crimes in misinforming the public and spreading false rumors. The media is really very much to blame for very much of the tragedy surrounding Columbine.
Khayl said...
ReplyDeletei took away the thought that Rev. Marxhausen was a good man for letting the Klebolds hold their ceremony their. He was a very good pastor in how he treated them just like someone would anyone who just lost someone. He treated like normal people. I thought dylan's memorial was very sad because even though he was a murderer, he was still just a child and he was dead. the parish's reaction that agreed with it was in my view the right choice. the Klebolds shouldn't have been treated badly just because their son was a murderer and i think the other half of the parish should've realized that.
I agree with you that Rev. Marxhausen was very kind in the way that he treated the Klebolds. They deserved to have a funeral for Dylan because they themselves needed it in order to grieve. However, I don't feel as much sympathy for Dylan. I don't think that the funeral was important because he himself deserved a funeral. Be that it may that he may not have been the most to blame for the incident, he still murdered fellow classmates for seemingly no good reason. I have sympathy for his family but not so much for him.
8. In 'Threesome' Cullen writes 'Dylan and Zack needed Eric. Someone to do the talking.' How does Cullen's description of their friendship resemble the relationship between Dick and Perry from In Cold Blood?
ReplyDeleteDIck and Perry's friendship closely resembles Dyaln and Eric's friendship. DIck was the leader and he did the talking and the planning and Perry followed his lead. Same with Eric, Dylan relied on Eric and went along with whatever he did.
Stephen said...
ReplyDeleteI learned that Dylan was born twenty years (to the day) before the 9/11 attacks, started school a year early because of his intelligence, and had to make a “frightening transition” (128) between a gifted program in elementary school to a larger middle school with no gifted program. His intellect alone did not make him feel different. Rather, his outbursts of emotion seem to have been the primary aspect of his personality that separated him from the other boys, who tended to be stoic. Anger management issues do tend to make people perform violent acts, but the main factor that led Dylan to violence was his lack of self-confidence, since he let Eric plan the event and lead him into murder.
Yeah, I also noticed the irony of Dylan being born on 9/11. Cosmic foreshadowing maybe? I actually have a different opinion on a lot of this though. For one, you said that his intelligence alone didn't cause Dylan to feel different. While it never stated specifically in the book (yet) that this was so, I feel like being surrounded by gifted people and then suddenly being thrown to the "dogs" of dumb people, jocks, and bullies would be pretty shocking. I have to imagine that he would feel different; he might even feel intellectually superior to his bullies, which would give Eric a foothold to grasp in convincing him of the plan. I don't know if I would say that the main factor that lead him to violence was Eric. It may very well have been, but I must repeat my mantra of late: I can't comment until I've read the rest of the book.
4. Why do you think the heroic version of Danny Rorhbough's story was widely reported? Do you think that people find it easier to accept tragedies of this sort if there is something meaningful in a victim's last actions?
ReplyDeleteI think that his story was widely reported because it was so heroic and brave. Danny was a hero, and because of him, someone elses life was probably saved. I do think that people find it easier to accept something like this if there is something meaningful in the victim's last actions. It makes them feel better, like in this case, Dave's family knows that he didn't just die for nothing, he died trying to save other people.
Jazmine said...
ReplyDeleteI think that the chapter definitely clarified Dylan and Erics motivations. As we know they were not outcasts, goths, or affiliated with the "trenchcoat mafia". I strongly believe that the public continued to believe these myths because they were scared to face the truth. Its an easy way out to say that the killers were outcasts who were tormented by the jocks and wanted revenge for having to deal with ignorant "meat-heads" and the "preps", but thats just dumb! They were never outcasts (maybe in their own minds) and they decided to murder their classmates because they were full of hate..not at one person, but at everyone. The scary truth is that they were social kids (especially Eric) with seemingly "normal" lives and thats the one thing that is hard to grasp.
I agree with you on this one. It's very easy to categorize Dylan and Eric because then the issue has a clear solution. The murder was caused by bullying? Easy solution: start no tolerance policies. As we can see, most schools across America adopted these policies. Was it caused by the goths? Just ostracize the goths and fight the culture. By the TCM? Just get rid of the trench coats. All of these issues are clearly definable, clearly combatable. The more abstract issue that maybe Dylan and Eric did it because of mental diseases and social pressure that is extremely hard to recognize is terrifying, beucase it doesn't offer any clear cut guidelines on how to fix the problem. These rumors were easy to believe because the public wanted to believe them.
2. National polls taken after the attack listed a variety of causes contributing to the attack including violent movies, video games, Goth culture, lax gun laws, bullies, Satan and the parents. 85% of the public in a Gallup poll blamed the parents. What is your opinion of the list and the blaming of the parents?
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, I believe that a person's nature is more to blame rather than their parents. Sure, the parents are responsible for raising their child(ren) to know right from wrong and to make the proper decision(s). But that is all that the parents can do, they can't completely carve their child's life out for them. Violent movies/video games, goth culture, etc can have its own effect on one's behavior or "tastes", but it still depends on the kind of person who's taking part in it.
10. In 'Media Crime' Cullen takes on the myths of the Trench Coat Mafia, Goth outcasts hunting down jocks and other myths. Do you feel this chapter helped clarify the motivations of the killers for you? Why do you think that the public continues to believe these myths?
ReplyDeleteThis chapter did not help to clarify the motives at all for me. Rather, it was chapter 25, “Threesome,” that explains Eric’s motive best. He wanted to begin “eliminating the likes of us” (135). This idea probably came in part from the video game Doom. Chapter 28, “Media Crime,” addresses the myths associated with Eric’s and Dylan’s motives, showing how the media propagated them and why they are not true. The public continues to believe these myths because they fit so well together with each other and with what generally went on at Columbine.
Jason said...
ReplyDeleteThis chapter is very interesting because it shows that Dylan was a very intelligent youth who was capable of knowing intellectually that what he did was wrong. He had a lot of other alternatives and could have gone to college. At this point, he appears to enjoy life and not have any fantasies of living alone without civilization, like Eric does. It is very possible though that because he was so smart he felt that he couldn’t relate to many people. His intellectualism could have prevented him from making many friends among people who he considered to be less intelligent than he was. This feeling of being an outcast (and possibly feeling superior to his peers), coupled with his occasional bursts of uncontrollable rage is a bad equation. Without a lot of anger therapy and personal reflection there’s no way that Dylan could have gone too long without an explosion.
I definately agree with you. Dylan was smart enough to know right from wrong, but because he was more socially akward, it could have prevented him from making alot of friends, which would make him feel like an outcast. This could have created lots of anger which in the end, caused him to do something like this.
2. National polls taken after the attack listed a variety of causes contributing to the attack including violent movies, video games, Goth culture, lax gun laws, bullies, Satan and the parents. 85% of the public in a Gallup poll blamed the parents. What is your opinion of the list and the blaming of the parents?
ReplyDelete- My opinion on the list is not every single item on the list is necessarily "bad." Looking closely: Violent Video games and movies, they have ratings for a reason, its for you to play when you are mature and know what is the difference between a video game and reality. Now the killers did not know that fine line. It said in one chapter one guy even created his own characters in the Doom series and pretended to be his own fantasy world, that is scary because it shows this guy did not have a firm grip between the Doom world and the real world, same goes for movies, movies are fake and when you perceive them to be real then something is not right. The notion of them being a part about the goth culture is stupid in my part. People look at the surface of the culture and see dark hair, bleeding mascara, heavy music and aggressive clothing, but at the heart they are the opposite, they are calm and pacifists who would not commit this act. As for Satan worship that would explain the bizarreness and twisted nature of this attack as for them being worshipers, i do not know. Lax gun laws definitely had a part in this, they made it so easy to get guns and ammunition it was ridiculous. bullies, no i do not think so these were "normal" kids who were well liked and got straight A's bullying does not fit in this massacre. There was no "targeting" they intended to kill everybody.
1. In 'Vacant' we read of how the families learned of the deaths. Which of these stories affected you personally and why?
ReplyDelete-The reaction of the Sanders family was one of the most difficult for me to deal with. They have to live with the knowledge of a detailed account of how Mr. Sanders slowly bled to death when he could have perhaps live. Mrs. Sanders has a very physical reaction to the news of her husband's death, and she throws up. This was one of the most emotionally raw parts of the book I have read so far.
Shelby said...
ReplyDeleteCullen utilizes this time shift to show thhe changes Dylan and Eric experienced...maybe to help better understand why they were the way they were when the massacre occured. 'Black' shows how Eric and Dylan LIKED to be different and this possibly tellls us a little something about why they did what they did.
I agree with you on this. By taking the reader back to when the boys were younger, it showed us what they were like back then and how what they were like may have affected them later. The reader also gets information they did not know before, and gets a better understanding of why this happend.
7. What did you take away from the chapter 'Hour of Need'? Do you think Rev. Marxhausen acted as a good pastor to the Klebolds? What did you think of Dylan's memorial and the parish's reaction to it?
ReplyDelete-Yes i do think he acted like a good paster. the family was defiantly in need, even though they haven't attended the church in a while, the pastor still reached out to them which is basically the heart of Christianity, reaching out to those in need. I think it was a good quiet service the way it should have been, not too much attention drawn to it, it gave the family and friends a chance to mourn.
Stuart said...
ReplyDeleteMany people could have reacted badly to such an outlandish headline. In such an influential paper as the Denver Post, many people would be reading it, when in reality the bleeding hadn't ceased. The impressions people could have gathered could have been used to downplay such a horrific event.
I totally agree with you. They should not have used this headline because it wasn't true. People hadn't started healing, people were definately not over it because it had only been a day and a half since the shooting when they printed this.
9. In 'Black' Cullen flashes back to Eric and Dylan's sophomore year. How does Cullen utilize this time shift?
ReplyDelete-it gives us a chance to look back, and see the true beings of these guys. All we know was they were "twisted killers" but they were actually human beings to and this chapter showed that.
3. At the beginning of 'Rush to Closure' we read that the Denver Post printed the headline 'Healing Begins' 36 hours after the attack. What effect do you think that this had? Do you think it hindered the healing of people who were still processing the attack?
ReplyDeleteBy giving the aftermath of the Columbine tragedy the front cover of the Denver post, it's obvious that it was purposefully placed there. One, it drew in buyers eager to be informed on the current state of Columbine and ALL of its "victims". It also unintentionally had a more horrifying effect on those affected by Columbine. In the chapter, it's said that even "Ministers, psychiatrists, and grief counselors cringed." For those who were worst affected (such as the survivors, parents, and school employees), it was already hard enough moving on; now the newspaper gave them a print reminder of what had to be done.
Khayl, you said
ReplyDelete"i learned about how brilliant he was and just how much of a waste his mind was. i believe that when he got to middle school it did make him feel different from others because he was suddenly cast into it and couldn't fall back on a safe environment like the honors program. his anger issues does seem to contribute to his violent behavior but didn't necessarily have to lead to it. if he had been helped instead of 'expected to grow out of it' it could have been prevented."
I agree with you that Dylan's anger issues did not have to cause his violent behavior. A feeling of anger by itself should never propel a person to go along with a murder plot, so Dylan's shyness and eagerness to be seen as a tough guy had to have played a major part. An honors program in middle school, had it been available, might have allowed Dylan to get over his shyness and anger problems more easily, since he would have continued to be with other gifted children like him.
Jason W. said...
ReplyDeleteYes i do think he acted like a good paster. the family was defiantly in need, even though they haven't attended the church in a while, the pastor still reached out to them which is basically the heart of Christianity, reaching out to those in need. I think it was a good quiet service the way it should have been, not too much attention drawn to it, it gave the family and friends a chance to mourn.
I agree with you, I think he was a good pastor. He was very kind to them, even though they had not been to church in a while and helped them when they needed it. I also think it was a good quiet service, it was nice and it was something Dylan's family and friends needed.
10. In 'Media Crime' Cullen takes on the myths of the Trench Coat Mafia, Goth outcasts hunting down jocks and other myths. Do you feel this chapter helped clarify the motivations of the killers for you? Why do you think that the public continues to believe these myths?
ReplyDelete-I really like this because it shows the media as the instigating, gossip hungry, trash it can be. They want these guys to be freaks of nature who wanted to "get back at those jocks" where in reality, they just wanted to kill EVERYONE not the jocks, everyone. Public wants to believe this so they dint have to believe the fact that these guys were normal and hid there intentions from everyone until the day of attack.
Jasmine said...
ReplyDeleteNo one likes a sad and uneventful ending. The media's heroic version of Danny's death would change that image right away, and also become a more popular story. It's not as though those who heard the truth about Danny's death would feel any less mournful if they knew the truth. But the media is more worried about their audience (and income) rather than a less exciting tragedy.
I agree with you here. THe media was worried about the people they were speaking to and they knew that people would like this story. This story was heroic and thats the kind of story the media would want to hear about.
1. In 'Vacant' we read of how the families learned of the deaths. Which of these stories affected you personally and why?
ReplyDelete- The story that touched me was the one of Brian's son. He was left on the sidewalk, on the SIDEWALK for hours and the medics didn't come for a long time to get him.
ELizabeth said...
ReplyDeleteI think that his story was widely reported because it was so heroic and brave. Danny was a hero, and because of him, someone elses life was probably saved. I do think that people find it easier to accept something like this if there is something meaningful in the victim's last actions. It makes them feel better, like in this case, Dave's family knows that he didn't just die for nothing, he died trying to save other people.
- i agree with you, this guy was very heroic in his actions and acted bravely. He didnt die for nothing he saved lives that wouldnt have been saved otherwise.
Jason Rodencal said...
ReplyDeleteThe anecdote about how Brian Rohrbough found out about Danny affected me the most personally. That Brian had to find out about his son’s death through the news paper was terrible. It was made worse that he didn’t even find out through an impersonal list of names- he actually saw his dead son lying on the ground in a pool of his own blood! In the newspaper! It is made all the more tragic by Cullen’s description of Danny. It just seems like such a waste of life. Danny had plans, loves, joys, and happiness. There is no cosmic reason for his death; it is pointless, brutal, and just tragic. Then Brian can’t even collect the body. Danny lays out in snow and cold; it is the ultimate insult to Brian. He not only cannot protect his son from the killers, he couldn’t even protect his son in death from the elements.
- i too found the story about Danny really sad. It was terrible he had to find out that way. The inadequacy of the medics and the police are what finished him off. Complete disgrace to the dead to leave his body in the snow. That should never have happened
James Kraus
ReplyDelete2. National polls taken after the attack listed a variety of causes contributing to the attack including violent movies, video games, Goth culture, lax gun laws, bullies, Satan and the parents. 85% of the public in a Gallup poll blamed the parents. What is your opinion of the list and the blaming of the parents?
The great list of societies least understood members filled me with dread. I am reminded of "First they came..." my Pastor Martin Niemoller where progressively the public would turn on these groups such as film makers, game developers, Goths and Satanists. Casting blame on those groups as a whole could condemn them permanently in the public's view leading to their persecution.
As for the great majority placing blame on the parents, I feel that most people realize the ridiculousness of their other options and as a last resort choose their fallback response, a response they dare not over think, but rather use to simply shift blame. Finally I simply wish to make a point that from how this questions was phrased, it does not seem like there was a "There is nothing to blame" variety of option on any of the polls. This would lead me to believe that there may have been a significant portion of respondents who only chose the parents because there was no other option on the pool.
1. In 'Vacant' we read of how the families learned of the deaths. Which of these stories affected you personally and why?
ReplyDeleteI was moved the most when Brian Rohrbough learned of his son Danny's death. He did not recieve a single report on his son's whereabouts, but found out exactly where his son was when he saw a picture of Danny collapsed on the sidewalk in a pool of blood. I would be mortified to see such a picture, let alone if it was someone I knew. I felt terrible when I read that "Danny was all that Brian had." The fact that the book went into detail of how Danny had his life already planned out and how the authorities would not at least move Danny's body from the sidewalk for over a day crushed me.
Shelby Dover said...
ReplyDeleteCullen utilizes this time shift to show thhe changes Dylan and Eric experienced...maybe to help better understand why they were the way they were when the massacre occured. 'Black' shows how Eric and Dylan LIKED to be different and this possibly tellls us a little something about why they did what they did.
- I totally agree, this shows the changed they went through and it really got inside what they were about and who they essentially were. it also showed the starting of the planning.
"8. In 'Threesome' Cullen writes 'Dylan and Zack needed Eric. Someone to do the talking.' How does Cullen's description of their friendship resemble the relationship between Dick and Perry from In Cold Blood?
ReplyDeleteFrom the very beginning of In Cold Blood, Dick and Perry had a very interesting relationship. I feel like the killers in Columbine had a similar relationship. Eric is established as the "one to do the talking." He was the leader. In In Cold Blood, that was Dick's role. Perry seemed to just follow along just as Dylan has. "
While I definitely agree with you on the topic of Eric being the leader and Perry being the follower, I believe they are also very different. In "In Cold Blood" Dick doesn't have the "guts" to kill the family while in "Columbine" the mastermind, Eric, does the most killing of the two. It seems to me that the killers in "Columbine" were very different in contrast to Dick and Perry's similarities.
RAWRRAWR is James Kraus =)
ReplyDelete2. National polls taken after the attack listed a variety of causes contributing to the attack including violent movies, video games, Goth culture, lax gun laws, bullies, Satan and the parents. 85% of the public in a Gallup poll blamed the parents. What is your opinion of the list and the blaming of the parents?
ReplyDelete-I think Eric and Dylan can really be the only people held accountable for the murders. I think the only real legitimate reason for the murders is Eric being a sociopath and his twisted personality. In fact, because he was such an effective manipulator, he was probably the only reason Dylan took a part in the killings. The violent movies and video games were certainly not a primary reason for the interest in murder. I think that Eric simply enjoyed them more than the typical kid because of his already murderous tendencies. The goth culture can be taken entirely out of the equation since both kids were fairly normal appearing to the outside world, and the goth myth was just something people created so that the killings could seem more preventable and explainable. Really the guns weren't the most dangerous weapon in this situation, it was the intent to kill. In fact, if people were not so desperate to blame someone or something since the killers are gone, I doubt it would have been seen as a large factor in the problem. The most dangerous weapon and only important one was the mindset of Eric and Dylan and their intent to kill. In fact, even if Dylan and Eric had been unable to get the guns, they probably would have focused more on the bombing aspect of the murders and perhaps succeeded in raising the death toll. Bullying is a huge problem, but since Eric was not discriminate in his hatred for mankind, I don't think that it was a reason for the killings, at least not in Eric's case. Bullying has been around since the beginning of time, it is one of the stressors that almost everyone has experienced. We have to be able to handle it in a healthy way. No matter how horrible bullying is, I seriously doubt that it will ever stop altogether. Eric and Dylan would have undoubtedly run into some form of bullying or mild harassment in the future. They had an extreme lack of restraint, and were ticking time bombs. This type of situation was inevitable in their case. Personally, I don't think that Satan made Eric and Dylan do what they did. We should hold people accountable for their own actions. If I get mad at my sister tomorrow and wack her across the head. The excuse "Satan made me do it" is certainly not going to fly with my mom.
-Although not altogether foolproof, the most effective method of prevention could have been the cooperation and attention of their parents. Although Eric was a master manipulator due to his sociopathic tendencies, he left the house riddled with clues of his intent. Even Brooks' mom, Judy, saw through his innocent facade and warned the authorities and Eric's parents about Eric. I think Eric's parents were in the best position to prevent the entire situation, and they were so concerned with tarnishing Eric's reputation that they overlooked obvious red flags. Dylan's parents knew from an early age that he had an unpredictably explosive personality. In the anecdote about Dylan erupting at a young age, I couldn't help but wonder why he was not disciplined further. It seemed like his parents humored his little tantrums and treated them like an incurable disease. Disciplinary measures should have been taken in the beginning, then perhaps Dylan would have learnt to vent his frustrations and anger in a healthy way to avoid being punished at the very least.
Clay said...
ReplyDeleteWhile violent games and influences from fellow teenagers can affect students, the right upbringing is certainly a factor. Even the smallest events in a child's life can affect them in the long run; however, the parents do not deserve 85% of the blame. Students do need role models whom they can relate to, a characteristic some parents do not possess. Permissive gun laws and the influence from the Trench Coat Mafia definitely affected Dylan and Eric, but the boys' upbringing could have deeply affected their long-term personality.
- i agree, video games can affect a kid but so does the way they are brought up about video games. The gun law definitely made this whole thing easier for them.
Chanan said...
ReplyDeleteFrom the very beginning of In Cold Blood, Dick and Perry had a very interesting relationship. I feel like the killers in Columbine had a similar relationship. Eric is established as the "one to do the talking." He was the leader. In In Cold Blood, that was Dick's role. Perry seemed to just follow along just as Dylan has.
_i agree, the killers of columbine were the same as dick and Perry. they both were really good friends, and i like how you distinguished the similarity in how one was the one "in charge of talking." both set of killers had a guy designated like that. Also, one was definitely a leader and the other was a follower
6. What did you learn about Dylan Klebold in the chapter 'Gifted Boy'? Do you believe his intellect made him feel different from others (and perhaps an outcast)? Do you think his anger management issues had implications for his eventual depression and violence?
ReplyDeleteFirst off, I just wanted to point out how ironic it was to me that Dylan's birthday is twenty years before the 9/11 terrorist attacks. But most children/people who are more intelligent than those around them would feel pressured by their smarts. If anything, Dylan would more than likely keep more to himself rather than be outgoing and social. No one would guess that he would have an anger management problem unless they were somehow close to him. However, I do not think that his anger was the main reason for his involvement in the Columbine shooting. As the story makes clear, Eric was the one in charge, the one who took action first; Dylan just followed. His hate and anger could have contributed to him actually wanting to be involved in the shooting though.
James Kraus
ReplyDeleteJason W said ..."1. In 'Vacant' we read of how the families learned of the deaths. Which of these stories affected you personally and why?
- The story that touched me was the one of Brian's son. He was left on the sidewalk, on the SIDEWALK for hours and the medics didn't come for a long time to get him. "
My own opinion of this scene actually was one of little emotion. While I can definitely sympathize with the father's wishes to have his body removed, out of respect more than anything else, I didn't feel like the particular act of leaving the corpse on he sidewalk was very horrific. Even after the author describes the body lying in the snow I feel that the emotional appeal was lost in the gravity of attempts to help those who were still alive.
1. In 'Vacant' we read of how the families learned of the deaths. Which of these stories affected you personally and why?
ReplyDeleteThe part that affected me the most was how the police that were active within the crime scene just left Brian Rorhbough's son, Danny, out on the sidewalk for over a whole day, and made up the story that there might have been some booby-traps on the body.
2. National polls taken after the attack listed a variety of causes contributing to the attack including violent movies, video games, Goth culture, lax gun laws, bullies, Satan and the parents. 85% of the public in a Gallup poll blamed the parents. What is your opinion of the list and the blaming of the parents?
ReplyDelete-Eric and Dylan are the only people who could have been held primarily accountable for the incident. Looking for indirect reasons is a game that could be played with almost anything that happens. Violent movies and violent video games were probably enjoyed by Eric especially because of his already murderous tendencies. They were most likely not the cause of them. Since the goth myth was mostly perpetuated by the media, I don't think it can any longer hold any bearings to this specific case since Eric and Dylan were both seemingly fairly normal teenagers. The most dangerous weapon in this killing was the mindset of the murderous and the indiscriminate intent to kill. If Eric and Dylan were still alive, I doubt that such a large amount of blame would have been put on the guns. One could argue that even if they hadn't had access to the guns that they would have focused solely on the bombing aspect of the killing and then perhaps been able to effectively set of the bombs;thus raising the death toll into the hundreds instead of the teens.
2. National polls taken after the attack listed a variety of causes contributing to the attack including violent movies, video games, Goth culture, lax gun laws, bullies, Satan and the parents. 85% of the public in a Gallup poll blamed the parents. What is your opinion of the list and the blaming of the parents?
ReplyDeleteMy personal opinion over the results of the poll, is that people are ingnorant of a person's feelings and another person's motives. First, people, even those who have lost nothing over the altercation, tend to blame someone, even if truly innocent, just out of the stereotypes, or plainly to blame someone so they may take their anger out on a certain individual or party to whom is associated with the problem. Next, people tend to assume that a person who has comitted a crime did so, because of the various reasons that the stereotype portrays, such as how both the public and the media blatantly painted the picture of the culprits being eihter gothic, gay, and/or outliers in the social world, which is clearly not the case with both Dylan and Eric.
James Kraus
ReplyDeleteClay said...
While violent games and influences from fellow teenagers can affect students, the right upbringing is certainly a factor. Even the smallest events in a child's life can affect them in the long run; however, the parents do not deserve 85% of the blame. Students do need role models whom they can relate to, a characteristic some parents do not possess. Permissive gun laws and the influence from the Trench Coat Mafia definitely affected Dylan and Eric, but the boys' upbringing could have deeply affected their long-term personality.
I feel that a statement the author made directly indicates that the Trench Coat Mafia was in no way to blame for the killings. The author writes "They wore them to the massacre, for both fashion and functional considerations. The choice would cause tremendous confusion." It seems to me that it is indicated that the Trench Coat Mafia was just a misunderstanding of things in the short term media reporting caused by the killers accidentally wearing the coats.
James Kraus
ReplyDeleteMegan said...
2. National polls taken after the attack listed a variety of causes contributing to the attack including violent movies, video games, Goth culture, lax gun laws, bullies, Satan and the parents. 85% of the public in a Gallup poll blamed the parents. What is your opinion of the list and the blaming of the parents?
-Eric and Dylan are the only people who could have been held primarily accountable for the incident. Looking for indirect reasons is a game that could be played with almost anything that happens. Violent movies and violent video games were probably enjoyed by Eric especially because of his already murderous tendencies. They were most likely not the cause of them. Since the goth myth was mostly perpetuated by the media, I don't think it can any longer hold any bearings to this specific case since Eric and Dylan were both seemingly fairly normal teenagers. The most dangerous weapon in this killing was the mindset of the murderous and the indiscriminate intent to kill. If Eric and Dylan were still alive, I doubt that such a large amount of blame would have been put on the guns. One could argue that even if they hadn't had access to the guns that they would have focused solely on the bombing aspect of the killing and then perhaps been able to effectively set of the bombs;thus raising the death toll into the hundreds instead of the teens.
I love your point on the bombing aspect of the gun control law. It blows a wide hole in the idea fundamentally shaking one of the most important aspects of so many heated debates of the killings. Even the movie we watched "Bowling for Columbine" would have been fundamentally different if the killers had successfully used explosives in their attacks.
3. At the beginning of 'Rush to Closure' we read that the Denver Post printed the headline 'Healing Begins' 36 hours after the attack. What effect do you think that this had? Do you think it hindered the healing of people who were still processing the attack?
ReplyDeleteBy the "Denver Post" announcing that the mental and emotional healing has begun, creates a negative effect over the people who were currently only beginning to cope wiht the loss, at a very minute level. This is mainly a negative claim, because those who have not begun to recover, which is a very large amount of people, are now pressured into doing so, which then defeats the purpose of the healing. Therefor, this act would have hindered people and their ability to get over the rough times.
2. National polls taken after the attack listed a variety of causes contributing to the attack including violent movies, video games, Goth culture, lax gun laws, bullies, Satan and the parents. 85% of the public in a Gallup poll blamed the parents. What is your opinion of the list and the blaming of the parents?
ReplyDelete-continuing my answer to #2...
-Almost everyone has faced bullying to some extent or another. Healthy people learn to handle the stress in a better way. As awful as bullying is, I don't think the human race is capable of wiping it out entirely. Eric and Dylan would have eventually come into contact with some form of bullying within their lives, and the capability of handling it in a healthy way, an identical or similar incident would have been inevitable. Personally, I don't think Satan can be held accountable for the murders at Columbine. If I get mad at my sister and wack her across the head, I highly doubt the excuse "Satan made me do it" is going to fly with my mom.
-The people most able to prevent the situation would have been Eric and Dylan's parents. Despite Eric's manipulation skills, his parents were left plenty of clues to his intentions lying around the house. They also received warnings from other parents and chose to ignore them in order to avoid risking Eric's reputation. If they had just once stopped to consider the danger that Eric posed to people around him, they could have prevented the whole thing. Dylan's parents also recognized wild outbursts in his childhood that would pop up unpredictably. Perhaps if his parents had taken better disciplinary action, he would have learned to handle stress in a healthy manner, if only to avoid punishment it could have created habits to help him throughout life. Although I think it would be difficult for any parent to view their own child in that sort of light, both parents were given valid reasons to investigate further into the lives of their children.
Jason Wani said...
ReplyDelete-I really like this because it shows the media as the instigating, gossip hungry, trash it can be. They want these guys to be freaks of nature who wanted to "get back at those jocks" where in reality, they just wanted to kill EVERYONE not the jocks, everyone. Public wants to believe this so they dint have to believe the fact that these guys were normal and hid there intentions from everyone until the day of attack.
I agree with you on your points. This chapter does prove the selfishness of the media, and it is a good thing that it does expose the media's intentions. A better story sells better, even if it is tampered with. It's also a good thing that the book clarifies Eric & Dylan's intentions: just to kill everyone for the sake of making a lasting impact. Their original plan may have been faulty, but they sure did accomplish their goal.
4. Why do you think the heroic version of Danny Rorhbough's story was widely reported? Do you think that people find it easier to accept tragedies of this sort if there is something meaningful in a victim's last actions?
ReplyDeletePeople like to have horribly sad events end in a more meaningful way, such as Danny Rorhbough's heroic story. Therefor, people will take a story better if it is portrayed under a brighter light, rather than the more probable story. I, myself, wanted to believe that this was true, but I told myself, not even knowing the kid, that this was neither true, nor nearly possible for a young teenager to do out of instinctand in the situation he was in.
*i meant to say "without the capability of handling it in a better way"
ReplyDeleteJames Kraus
ReplyDelete10. In 'Media Crime' Cullen takes on the myths of the Trench Coat Mafia, Goth outcasts hunting down jocks and other myths. Do you feel this chapter helped clarify the motivations of the killers for you? Why do you think that the public continues to believe these myths?
This chapter did not help to clarify the motives at all for me. Rather, it was chapter 25, “Threesome,” that explains Eric’s motive best. He wanted to begin “eliminating the likes of us” (135). This idea probably came in part from the video game Doom. Chapter 28, “Media Crime,” addresses the myths associated with Eric’s and Dylan’s motives, showing how the media propagated them and why they are not true. The public continues to believe these myths because they fit so well together with each other and with what generally went on at Columbine.
I would like to address your brief point on Doom. I feel like the way he is described modifying the program to make it more gruesome and gore-filled makes it evident that despite the (then relatively) violent images portrayed by the game, he was the one providing the violent images to himself and if he did not play Doom he may have expressed his desire for carnage in other, possibly real, ways.
3. At the beginning of 'Rush to Closure' we read that the Denver Post printed the headline 'Healing Begins' 36 hours after the attack. What effect do you think that this had? Do you think it hindered the healing of people who were still processing the attack?
ReplyDelete-36 hours is hardly enough time to begin healing after the death of a loved one. Especially if you factor in the amount of time the people affected lived in uncertainty about the fates of the victims. As horrific as a single incident of death is, this was on a much larger scale. The entire community was still grieving, and it was a thoughtless notion that the people suffering through the aftermath of Columbine could feel any better at so quick a rate. Mostly, it was just disrespectful of the incident. It is important not to rush people through the grieving period, it was important for them to know that they would never completely heal, and that's perfectly normal.
8. In 'Threesome' Cullen writes 'Dylan and Zack needed Eric. Someone to do the talking.' How does Cullen's description of their friendship resemble the relationship between Dick and Perry from In Cold Blood?
ReplyDelete-Dick and Eric are both sociopaths. They have no feelings for the people around them. Both of them were seemingly normal on the outside looking in, and had very charismatic personalities that allowed them to manipulate other people. Dylan and Perry are both more soft spoken, and seem to work for the approval of Eric and Dick. Like Dick, I'm sure Eric preyed on Dylan's longing to belong and exploited it for his diabolical plot.
6. What did you learn about Dylan Klebold in the chapter 'Gifted Boy'? Do you believe his intellect made him feel different from others (and perhaps an outcast)? Do you think his anger management issues had implications for his eventual depression and violence?
ReplyDeleteIn the chapet 'Gifted Boy', we learn a little bit more of the person Dylan Klebold was as a child. Dylan was more of a somber person, for in elementary school, Dylan was taken care of for all six years, which would lead to his inexperience with dealing with other people who did not recieve the same treatments, which would have been a major wake-up call. Dylan developed certain outbursts of anger, which will continue to take place throughout the rest of his short life, claims his mother, Sue Klebold. I believe that Dylan's outbursts definitely played a role in his violent history, but the CHIPS most likely had played a role in his outbursts.
Jazmine said...
ReplyDelete"I think that the Denver Post printing the headline "Healing Begins" soooooooo soon after the shooting was ridiculous!!!! People didn't even have time to actually sort out what had happened and some still didn't know where their friends and children were! I think it hindered their healing because they probably thought that the media wanted to hurry up and glaze over the situation."
-I completely agree! It almost seemed as if the reporters realized there was only so long they could keep selling papers regarding Columbine before they had to cover something else, and decided to wrap up the entire process and add closure to an incident that the community would never fully heal from...much less 36 hours later!!!
James Kraus said...
ReplyDelete-"From the very beginning of In Cold Blood, Dick and Perry had a very interesting relationship. I feel like the killers in Columbine had a similar relationship. Eric is established as the "one to do the talking." He was the leader. In In Cold Blood, that was Dick's role. Perry seemed to just follow along just as Dylan has.
While I definitely agree with you on the topic of Eric being the leader and Perry being the follower, I believe they are also very different. In "In Cold Blood" Dick doesn't have the "guts" to kill the family while in "Columbine" the mastermind, Eric, does the most killing of the two. It seems to me that the killers in "Columbine" were very different in contrast to Dick and Perry's similarities.""
I definitely agree that 'Dick and Eric' and 'Perry and Dylan' had numerous similarities, for Dick and Eric would be more of the smooth talkers and would truly be the mastermind behind the whole sheme while Perry and Dylan would follow along, and would not kill the innocent people that were killed (both were, in a way, pressured into killing the people, more so with Perry, but Dylan does show signs of being pulled in). The two pairs also had quite important differences between one another, because Dick chickens out at the last possible second of "In Cold Blood", while in "Columbine", Eric clearly has no problem with completing the goal, and rather enjoys it.
Jake Levin said...
ReplyDeleteMy personal opinion over the results of the poll, is that people are ingnorant of a person's feelings and another person's motives. First, people, even those who have lost nothing over the altercation, tend to blame someone, even if truly innocent, just out of the stereotypes, or plainly to blame someone so they may take their anger out on a certain individual or party to whom is associated with the problem. Next, people tend to assume that a person who has comitted a crime did so, because of the various reasons that the stereotype portrays, such as how both the public and the media blatantly painted the picture of the culprits being eihter gothic, gay, and/or outliers in the social world, which is clearly not the case with both Dylan and Eric.
This is all very true. Even when we are not involved in a situation, we want some sort of justification. It doesn't even matter if that justification is simply placing the blame on a person/thing. It brings a sense of comfort and gives reason for stereotypes. If humans weren't so quick to judge and shun problems/problem-causers, tragedies such as the Columbine shooting would not have been seen by the world the way it was. Instead of blaming stereotypes, the fault would have just simply been placed only on Eric and Dylan's wish to kill those around them in the school.
Jasmine said...
ReplyDelete"First off, I just wanted to point out how ironic it was to me that Dylan's birthday is twenty years before the 9/11 terrorist attacks. But most children/people who are more intelligent than those around them would feel pressured by their smarts. If anything, Dylan would more than likely keep more to himself rather than be outgoing and social. No one would guess that he would have an anger management problem unless they were somehow close to him. However, I do not think that his anger was the main reason for his involvement in the Columbine shooting. As the story makes clear, Eric was the one in charge, the one who took action first; Dylan just followed. His hate and anger could have contributed to him actually wanting to be involved in the shooting though."
-I think that perhaps his anger management issues might have made it difficult for him to have a large amount of friends that he was really close with. Eric, who manipulated Dylan effectively, was extremely charismatic and was likely more able to gain Dylan's trust than a typical kid without sociopathic tendencies that didn't have any motives besides mutual friendship. Eric probably magnified and encouraged Dylan's anger issues for his own purposes.
3. At the beginning of 'Rush to Closure' we read that the Denver Post printed the headline 'Healing Begins' 36 hours after the attack. What effect do you think that this had? Do you think it hindered the healing of people who were still processing the attack?
ReplyDeleteThis chapter is exactly what its title hints at: a rush to closure. The press needs a variety of stories and really wanted to fix this whole Columbine problem quickly. This headline shows the insensitivity of the community towards the relatives of those victimized in the massacre. The Denver Post, by its name, seems it would be a popular paper in Colorado. After such a printing, I wouldn't have been the least bit surprised to see the paper go out of business shortly after the massacre, if not for one thing: the public's general interest in disaster.
3. At the beginning of 'Rush to Closure' we read that the Denver Post printed the headline 'Healing Begins' 36 hours after the attack. What effect do you think that this had? Do you think it hindered the healing of people who were still processing the attack?
ReplyDeleteI think the Denver Post must have completely misjudged the situation occurring in Colorado. To believe that "Healing" could occur little more than a day after people had seen friends and mentors shot with their own eyes is absolutely inhuman. I am sure this headline stunted healing in the community as now people felt pressured to accept the situation and move on even though they were not yet ready for it and thus made them even more uncomfortable during this sensitive time.
Megan said...
ReplyDelete-36 hours is hardly enough time to begin healing after the death of a loved one. Especially if you factor in the amount of time the people affected lived in uncertainty about the fates of the victims. As horrific as a single incident of death is, this was on a much larger scale. The entire community was still grieving, and it was a thoughtless notion that the people suffering through the aftermath of Columbine could feel any better at so quick a rate. Mostly, it was just disrespectful of the incident. It is important not to rush people through the grieving period, it was important for them to know that they would never completely heal, and that's perfectly normal.
Three mere days is truly rushing recovery of those that were affected deeply. No one I believe would be able to be perfectly fine three days after losing a loved one/someone close to them. You make a very valid point that I can completely agree with.
Megan said...
ReplyDelete"-Dick and Eric are both sociopaths. They have no feelings for the people around them. Both of them were seemingly normal on the outside looking in, and had very charismatic personalities that allowed them to manipulate other people. Dylan and Perry are both more soft spoken, and seem to work for the approval of Eric and Dick. Like Dick, I'm sure Eric preyed on Dylan's longing to belong and exploited it for his diabolical plot."
I agree with you on the fact that both Eric and Dick were sociopaths, and that they love to get under people's skin, so that they may benefit from the relationship. Both of these two are very charismatic, and rather attractive, therefore giving off the feeling that the person to whom is communicating with them should feel comfortable and give them what they want. Dick and Eric manipulate their P.I.C. (Partner In Crime) so that they will give in to their demands, which was to murder the innocent in cold blood.
James Kraus said...
ReplyDelete"I would like to address your brief point on Doom. I feel like the way he is described modifying the program to make it more gruesome and gore-filled makes it evident that despite the (then relatively) violent images portrayed by the game, he was the one providing the violent images to himself and if he did not play Doom he may have expressed his desire for carnage in other, possibly real, ways"
-I absolutely, 100% agree with this. It was not the video game that caused Eric's violent tendencies, he already had them to begin with. Pointing out that he helped create the gory scenes he played out though "Doom", just proves the point that the killing was an obsession that was coming from his own mind, not some preset video game.
Megan said..
ReplyDelete"-36 hours is hardly enough time to begin healing after the death of a loved one. Especially if you factor in the amount of time the people affected lived in uncertainty about the fates of the victims. As horrific as a single incident of death is, this was on a much larger scale. The entire community was still grieving, and it was a thoughtless notion that the people suffering through the aftermath of Columbine could feel any better at so quick a rate. Mostly, it was just disrespectful of the incident. It is important not to rush people through the grieving period, it was important for them to know that they would never completely heal, and that's perfectly normal."
I never really took it into account that the more a person has waited to find the outcome of the person in which they are connected to, can cause the first person even more of a traumatic situation than a person who finds out the death of a person straight away.
4. Why do you think the heroic version of Danny Rorhbough's story was widely reported? Do you think that people find it easier to accept tragedies of this sort if there is something meaningful in a victim's last actions?
ReplyDeleteWhile Americans love to read of disaster and chaos, a story such as this cannot be only told as horrible. In every movie or play, there's a fear of certain doom until the hero jumps out of an exploding building holding a baby and recycling some cans. America needs hope when faced with hopelessness, and the papers wanted to give them that hope. Each news provider is egotistical in its own ways, whether that be reporting fraudulent and exaggerated stories; however, in this case, public interest was the largest factor that would affect the media's reporting. By writing columns on things the community is interested in, news stations make money. Papers and reporters aren't interested in the public's feelings, as long as they can provide a good read.
8. In 'Threesome' Cullen writes 'Dylan and Zack needed Eric. Someone to do the talking.' How does Cullen's description of their friendship resemble the relationship between Dick and Perry from In Cold Blood?
ReplyDeleteCullen describes these two boys, Dylan and Zack, as being completely dependent on Eric for their guidance. They couldn't act on their own, instead requiring Eric's constant encouragement and approval of their actions. In "In Cold Blood" at first Perry needs some encouragement to start on his task and even on the brink of no return has second thoughts, but once he undertakes it, he acts independent of Dick, even stopping him from raping the young girl and taking the gun into his own hands to kill the family. Where without Eric's constant pressure, the two are lost, unlike Perry who could act on his own if need be.
Once again, James Kraus here =)
ReplyDeleteJazmine said...
ReplyDeleteThe part when the Rohrbough family learned about Danny's death struck me. The way Danny's life was portrayed and the things he would have done if he were still alive definitely pulled at my heart strings. He had soooo many things going for him, but unfortunately they will never be fullfilled.
I thought that Brian finding about Danny's death was mortifying too!! Not was I touched by how Danny had his whole life sucessfully planned out, but also by how the authorities paid little mind to the fact that they neither informed his family of his passing nor bothered to move his body. All in all, my heart's strings were pulled at this point as well.
Jake Levin said...
ReplyDelete"In the chapet 'Gifted Boy', we learn a little bit more of the person Dylan Klebold was as a child. Dylan was more of a somber person, for in elementary school, Dylan was taken care of for all six years, which would lead to his inexperience with dealing with other people who did not recieve the same treatments, which would have been a major wake-up call. Dylan developed certain outbursts of anger, which will continue to take place throughout the rest of his short life, claims his mother, Sue Klebold. I believe that Dylan's outbursts definitely played a role in his violent history, but the CHIPS most likely had played a role in his outbursts"
- I think that his parents played more of a role in his outbursts continuing past childhood than CHIPS. I think being in a gifted program in and of itself wouldn't have held Dylan back in any way. Although if his parents used it as a justification for the bad behavior and outbursts, it was their fault for allowing their son to behave poorly simply because he excelled in academics.
6. What did you learn about Dylan Klebold in the chapter 'Gifted Boy'? Do you believe his intellect made him feel different from others (and perhaps an outcast)? Do you think his anger management issues had implications for his eventual depression and violence?
ReplyDeleteHis being on a different intellectual level than his classmates would have undoubtedly had negative effects on his sanity. Dylan's eventual violence could have been sparked by his feeling of difference from his peers, as well as his previously discussed parental guidence. Teenagers need to feel accepted. Without someone who truly understood Dylan, he was, basically, all alone.
Clay said...
ReplyDelete"This chapter is exactly what its title hints at: a rush to closure. The press needs a variety of stories and really wanted to fix this whole Columbine problem quickly. This headline shows the insensitivity of the community towards the relatives of those victimized in the massacre. The Denver Post, by its name, seems it would be a popular paper in Colorado. After such a printing, I wouldn't have been the least bit surprised to see the paper go out of business shortly after the massacre, if not for one thing: the public's general interest in disaster."
It would make a lot of sense for the paper to go out of business for trying to alter something that should not be tampered with, which in this case was the emotions of those victimized in the Columbine Massacre. Although, the press truly does want to push the pace of recovery because the executives of the paper are only interested in making money, so they musn't dwell on the sad, yet boring topic of the massacre, they must go on to the next subject, beause it is the thing any paper company would do, wrong or not.
James Kraus
ReplyDelete4. Why do you think the heroic version of Danny Rorhbough's story was widely reported? Do you think that people find it easier to accept tragedies of this sort if there is something meaningful in a victim's last actions?
There is definitely a feeling that when a person dies in the pursuit of helping others, he has special significance, something to make himself standout. This is definitely true in Danny Rorhbough's death, where people tried to falsely glorify him as the savior of students that day. This glorified status was only intended as a justification of the death of the young boy, who's death was tragic enough. While the truth, a young boy running for his life, may be harder to accept than a lie, a young boy spending his last moments helping others, it is not right to try to justify the death of the young boy. Instead it is more appropriate to remember that two psychopathic shooters were the reason he died that day, not his own selflessness.
Jordanna said... [#2]
ReplyDeleteMy opinion on the list is maybe it is true, maybe it is not. Even though there is a lot of evidence no one really knew why they did what they did, so therefore, they blame other things. Yes, violent video games do lead to things like that, but it isn't really sure. The blaming of the parents I disagree with. Yes, it is a parent's right to teach his or her child to lead the right path, but I also think there are rebellious teenagers out there that don't care what their parents really say, and kids like Eric made it impossible to really control. In the end, it wasn't the parents fault, but more of Eric and Dylan because they decided not to use what their parents had taught them, and chose to rebel.
I do agree that the parents are not solely to blame, but normal teenagers such as Dylan and Eric aren't inspired by nothing. Childrens' upbringing has colossal long-term effects on their personality. In this case, the two boys were indeed part of the "Trench Coat Mafia", but perhaps were not inspired to do so on their own. The parents could have done a proper job raising the two (who knows?), but i feel like their early childhood experiences negatively affected their actions later, rather than influences such as Goth fads and video games.
Clay said...
ReplyDelete"While Americans love to read of disaster and chaos, a story such as this cannot be only told as horrible. In every movie or play, there's a fear of certain doom until the hero jumps out of an exploding building holding a baby and recycling some cans. America needs hope when faced with hopelessness, and the papers wanted to give them that hope. Each news provider is egotistical in its own ways, whether that be reporting fraudulent and exaggerated stories; however, in this case, public interest was the largest factor that would affect the media's reporting. By writing columns on things the community is interested in, news stations make money. Papers and reporters aren't interested in the public's feelings, as long as they can provide a good read."
-That's exactly how I feel. "Brian was irritated by he urge to juice the story to make Danny's death more tragic or meaningful. It was tragic enough, he said." (Cullen 116) Like it says in the book, it's sad enough that he died so young, and it's sad that someone would make up that type of story. It's insulting to think that his death needed any more honor that it already had.
Megan said...
ReplyDelete"- I think that his parents played more of a role in his outbursts continuing past childhood than CHIPS. I think being in a gifted program in and of itself wouldn't have held Dylan back in any way. Although if his parents used it as a justification for the bad behavior and outbursts, it was their fault for allowing their son to behave poorly simply because he excelled in academics."
My reasoning behind the CHIPS having a role in Dylan's outbursts, was because of the unsocialness that Dylan would have kept throughout the years of his enrollment. As Dylan graduated from the high level program and went off to Ken Caryl Middle School, Dylan went from the "Cradle to Reality", for he could not develop the people skills, in which would be required to go off into the real world, which in this case is the public middle school, would then lead to the obsession of violence that Dylan will create, which then leads to his part of the Columbine Massacre.
2. National polls taken after the attack listed a variety of causes contributing to the attack including violent movies, video games, Goth culture, lax gun laws, bullies, Satan and the parents. 85% of the public in a Gallup poll blamed the parents. What is your opinion of the list and the blaming of the parents?
ReplyDeleteWhile allowing the list of rumors, accusations, and assumptions to grow uncontrollably was not a mature reaction to the massacre, it was inevitable. My personal opinion of the list is neutral - yes, it should never have gotten so far out of hand, no, it was not the parents' fault, but the public HAD to place the blame somewhere. The public HAD to fabricate some motives, for none had been offered. Mad acts against innocent humans without explanation would be dangerous, and lead to hysteria and chaos. The list was inappropriate of the media to encourage, but necessary for the good of society.
Jason R. said...
ReplyDeleteThis chapter is very interesting because it shows that Dylan was a very intelligent youth who was capable of knowing intellectually that what he did was wrong. He had a lot of other alternatives and could have gone to college. At this point, he appears to enjoy life and not have any fantasies of living alone without civilization, like Eric does. It is very possible though that because he was so smart he felt that he couldn’t relate to many people. His intellectualism could have prevented him from making many friends among people who he considered to be less intelligent than he was. This feeling of being an outcast (and possibly feeling superior to his peers), coupled with his occasional bursts of uncontrollable rage is a bad equation. Without a lot of anger therapy and personal reflection there’s no way that Dylan could have gone too long without an explosion.
I can definitely relate to you in the fact that Dylan's anger issues and feelings of being too different from his other peers contributed to his involvement in the incident. However, I think that Eric also shares some of the blame as well. Eric was known as a very persuasive guy, and as Cullen made a point, was the "leader" of the two. Cullen says in the book that Dylan was more hesitant to shoot as opposed to Eric. Without Eric by his side to motivate Dylan, I don't think that he would have been able to pull off such a stunt on his own.
Stephen said...
ReplyDeleteThe headline underestimated the effect that the massacre had on the families of the victims. It hindered the healing of some of the victims’ relatives simply because it neglects the long-term emotions resulting from the Columbine killings. Feelings of loss and grief would be far too strong to dissipate in a day and a half; many may not have healed from the emotional anguish years after the incident, especially people like Brian Rohrbough, whose only son Danny died at the hands of the shooters.
My thoughts exactly, Stephen. The parents of children whom died at Columbine were grief-stricken, as was the community of Colorado. These people indeed needed much more time to really understand their emotions before seeing a headline such as this.
To Jake:
ReplyDeleteNow I understand what you were saying, I agree. I think that he was used to being coddled and couldn't function in a normal environment like the other kids. Or maybe his time spent in CHIPS disguised the problem, since transferring to the new school would have been a real test of his ability to form to friendships in an environment that was new to him.
3. At the beginning of 'Rush to Closure' we read that the Denver Post printed the headline 'Healing Begins' 36 hours after the attack. What effect do you think that this had? Do you think it hindered the healing of people who were still processing the attack?
ReplyDeleteWhen somebody experiences such unfathomable trauma as did those at Columbine high school on April 20, 1999, newspaper headlines become less significant. As Cullen understands, the newspaper was simply trying to console those in mourning; it failed. "Healing Begins" was premature and immature: who could expect any sort of progress after less than two days? I think it took those who experienced the massacre off-guard, and possibly urged thoughts of, "How am I going to react to this?" (Not necessarily healing reactions, but certainly SOME reaction).
Shelby Dover said...
ReplyDeleteI learned that Dylan is a good natured person (when he likes to go fishing and just enjoy nature)and that his issues keep him from being a completely normal teenager. I think these issues of Dylan definitely had something to do with what happened. I think Dylan's "smarts" probably made him feel out of place at times but I do not believe that he felt like an outcast because of this.
I disagree with your saying that Dylan's intellectual dominance was not related to his feeling like an outcast. Being smarter, or less smart, than the average group would have been terribly hard for Dylan to grasp in his youth. His anger could have developed from this, but I also feel this was not his push to insanity. I think his smarts are what really got him going off the rails on the crazy train(Ozzy Ozbourne reference).
7. What did you take away from the chapter 'Hour of Need'? Do you think Rev. Marxhausen acted as a good pastor to the Klebolds? What did you think of Dylan's memorial and the parish's reaction to it?
ReplyDeleteFrom "Hour of Need" I feel that it is important to realize that all in all there was still a dead body which needed taking care of. It is important to examine only the important details in the situation, such as the teenager who has committed suicide and not deal with his actions just before. Rev. Marxhausen acted as an excellent pastor by being compassionate and understanding despite the context of Dylan's death. Having a humble service for their son was respectful and entombed the good side of Dylan rather than the memory of a killer. Overall, I feel like the parish acted quite predictably in their mixed reactions, but also felt they took it well through not being especially disrespectful to the parents.
4. Why do you think the heroic version of Danny Rorhbough's story was widely reported? Do you think that people find it easier to accept tragedies of this sort if there is something meaningful in a victim's last actions?
ReplyDeleteTry telling American society "some high school boys shot and killed thirteen people today. Those people died for nothing. It was a complete and total waste." Wait and see how that goes over. People have trouble with situations that lack explanations; making Danny's death seem valiant, purposeful, sugar-coats it ("Mommy why did that boy die?" "Well, Honey, he had to help his friends get to safety"). This version of his death was reported because yes, it is easier to accept when there is something meaningful involved in a person's last actions.
Stuart said...
ReplyDeletePeople are very quick to justify just about anything. in this case, Danny's story was twisted to seem heroic, but doesn't replace the actions that actually took place. Either way Danny is dead. No matter how people see him, his legacy will always be left at Columbine.
While Danny did indeed die at Columbine, his actions led him to something larger than himself, considering present-day teenagers now read about him in AP Lang classes. The media did twist his story up, for a more interesting report, but the true Danny Rorbough would ultimately be revealed by one Dave Cullen (and his lesser-known competetors).
6. What did you learn about Dylan Klebold in the chapter 'Gifted Boy'? Do you believe his intellect made him feel different from others (and perhaps an outcast)? Do you think his anger management issues had implications for his eventual depression and violence?
ReplyDeleteAlthough his portrayal in the book seems to hide this fact, Dylan was quite smart. His shyness, as Cullen describes as being a result of his mental distinction, was probably a negative aspect of his personality. He had sporadic outbursts of emotion, which likely would never have surfaced, were he more outgoing and open with other people. With all of the rage of his life bottled up inside, yes, Dylan's angry outbursts eventually progressed into the depression and violence of his teenage years. He was shy, and not open, which left him with no answers as to why he felt certain emotions/rages.
1. In 'Vacant' we read of how the families learned of the deaths. Which of these stories affected you personally and why?
ReplyDeleteI was personally moved by the story involving the Rohrbough family. Brian Rohrbough had never been notified by any authorities of his son Danny’s death; he found out in the most gruesome way, recognizing his boy laid out in the street, lifeless or “motionless” as the caption read. Cullen also explains Danny’s hopes and aspirations. His plans for the future were prepared and awaiting to be fulfilled. However, Danny’s optimism is eradicated and his life’s value is diminished as he lies in the same spot for 28 hours, neglected of proper attention. Compared to the other parents, Brian is placed in the worst situation.
2. National polls taken after the attack listed a variety of causes contributing to the attack including violent movies, video games, Goth culture, lax gun laws, bullies, Satan and the parents. 85% of the public in a Gallup poll blamed the parents. What is your opinion of the list and the blaming of the parents?
ReplyDeleteMost of these causes are commonly assumed by society. They provide an excuse for the absentminded acts by Eric and Dylan. Overall, they are inaccurate. What is there to say about others that watch violent movies and play video games? Are they killers too? The only cause that is possible is the parents. Parents have a significant influence on their children. This also supports the words of the lawyer, “Dylan isn’t here anymore for people to hate, so people are going to hate you.”
3. At the beginning of 'Rush to Closure' we read that the Denver Post printed the headline 'Healing Begins' 36 hours after the attack. What effect do you think that this had? Do you think it hindered the healing of people who were still processing the attack?
ReplyDeleteAlthough the headline conveyed a message other than one that was intended, the Denver Post most likely aimed to reassure those affected by the Columbine shooting. Declaring that healing had began merely three days after the incident was disgraceful and downplayed the severity of the ordeal. The Denver Post had inaccurately jumped to a conclusion or “Rush[ed] to Closure” as the title of the section suggests. The community’s empathy for the survivors had begun to dwindle and they thought it was time to move on. Even though the assumption of the Denver Post was shameful, it did not affect the healing of the people processing the attack. They were constantly reminded thereafter by the returning of bodies to their family and sermons by preachers that felt the need to clarify the cause of the incident.
6. What did you learn about Dylan Klebold in the chapter 'Gifted Boy'? Do you believe his intellect made him feel different from others (and perhaps an outcast)? Do you think his anger management issues had implications for his eventual depression and violence?
ReplyDeleteDylan was very brilliant and grew up in an orderly and intellectual house. Starting school early and his intellect played against his social status. As Cullen explains it, “the early start didn’t impede him intellectually, but strained his shyness further.” However, he was not an outcast because he was a member of the Cub Scouts, played on a baseball team, and befriended Brooks Brown. His first outburst was startling, since he was at the young age of eight or nine. Apparently, they were quite frequent as “Sue Klebold had come to expect the outbursts.” In some cases they were quite peculiar, when “he would be docile for days or months, then the pain would boil over and some minor transgression would humiliate him.” Nevertheless, the outbursts were not serious enough to invoke any thoughts of depression or violence in the future; Judy figured he would grow out of hit, but he never did.
10. In 'Media Crime' Cullen takes on the myths of the Trench Coat Mafia, Goth outcasts hunting down jocks and other myths. Do you feel this chapter helped clarify the motivations of the killers for you? Why do you think that the public continues to believe these myths?
ReplyDeleteThis chapter pointed out the constant myths and assumptions that were spread by the media. This lead to the people that had not investigated the ordeal to be incorrectly informed, depending on the media for such vital information. The true motivation of the killers was completely lost. The media’s constant release of myths, as opposed to facts, resulted in the public regarding this information truthful. The myths were even supported by students who were also indulged in the myths by the media. Though they may have not been present during the incident, newscasts presented these students as witnessing. This gave the public even more reason to accept the myths as facts.
10. In 'Media Crime' Cullen takes on the myths of the Trench Coat Mafia, Goth outcasts hunting down jocks and other myths. Do you feel this chapter helped clarify the motivations of the killers for you? Why do you think that the public continues to believe these myths?
ReplyDelete'Media Crime' reveals the killers' motives by eliminating possibilities. It adresses that no, it was the Trench Coat Mafia. No, they weren't outcasts seeking revenge. Their motives do become clearer to me in this chapter because it helps me understand the false reasons that the public assigned to the murders, which are much easier to believe than the actual reasons (specific to Dylan and Eric personally and individually), hence the continued belief in them.
Lucas you said...
ReplyDeleteThis chapter pointed out the constant myths and assumptions that were spread by the media. This lead to the people that had not investigated the ordeal to be incorrectly informed, depending on the media for such vital information. The true motivation of the killers was completely lost. The media’s constant release of myths, as opposed to facts, resulted in the public regarding this information truthful. The myths were even supported by students who were also indulged in the myths by the media. Though they may have not been present during the incident, newscasts presented these students as witnessing. This gave the public even more reason to accept the myths as facts.
Lucas I support your opinion that the media's myths affected the views of witnesses and the uninvolved alike. I thknk that also, these myths were easier to accept than the true reasons of Dylan and Eric.
sammie k said...
ReplyDeleteAlthough his portrayal in the book seems to hide this fact, Dylan was quite smart. His shyness, as Cullen describes as being a result of his mental distinction, was probably a negative aspect of his personality. He had sporadic outbursts of emotion, which likely would never have surfaced, were he more outgoing and open with other people. With all of the rage of his life bottled up inside, yes, Dylan's angry outbursts eventually progressed into the depression and violence of his teenage years. He was shy, and not open, which left him with no answers as to why he felt certain emotions/rages.
- I agree that his superior intelligence and shyness lead to decline his social status. His outbursts were related to his depression and violence in his teenage years. However, he was viewed by his normal behavior, smart and shy. Therefore, no one could have assumed that he would take part in any actions like the Columbine shooting.
James you said...
ReplyDeleteThere is definitely a feeling that when a person dies in the pursuit of helping others, he has special significance, something to make himself standout. This is definitely true in Danny Rorhbough's death, where people tried to falsely glorify him as the savior of students that day. This glorified status was only intended as a justification of the death of the young boy, who's death was tragic enough. While the truth, a young boy running for his life, may be harder to accept than a lie, a young boy spending his last moments helping others, it is not right to try to justify the death of the young boy. Instead it is more appropriate to remember that two psychopathic shooters were the reason he died that day, not his own selflessness.
While I recognize that your point is valid, I must disagree. The public has every right to try to justify this boy's death. Keep in mind that the details were all over the news - once the claim was made, who wants to see it recanted? It was a notion made all in good intentions.
Lucas you said...
ReplyDeleteAlthough the headline conveyed a message other than one that was intended, the Denver Post most likely aimed to reassure those affected by the Columbine shooting. Declaring that healing had began merely three days after the incident was disgraceful and downplayed the severity of the ordeal. The Denver Post had inaccurately jumped to a conclusion or “Rush[ed] to Closure” as the title of the section suggests. The community’s empathy for the survivors had begun to dwindle and they thought it was time to move on. Even though the assumption of the Denver Post was shameful, it did not affect the healing of the people processing the attack. They were constantly reminded thereafter by the returning of bodies to their family and sermons by preachers that felt the need to clarify the cause of the incident.
Absolutely. The media is always ready for the next thing, and reactions were going stagnant so they sent consolement. You're entirely right that they had yet to be reminded again and again, by the bodies, the sermons, the funerals, and even each other. "Moving on" was far from happening and the media could never understand what the survivors/families really went through.
Rarawrawr said...
ReplyDelete“I think the Denver Post must have completely misjudged the situation occurring in Colorado. To believe that "Healing" could occur little more than a day after people had seen friends and mentors shot with their own eyes is absolutely inhuman. I am sure this headline stunted healing in the community as now people felt pressured to accept the situation and move on even though they were not yet ready for it and thus made them even more uncomfortable during this sensitive time.”
- I agree that the Denver Post made a mistake in posting the beginning of healing so spontaneously. Their account of the public’s view must have been altered and the Denver Post only aimed to reassure those affected by the incident. Although some people believed it was time to move on and pressured others to, many were still in mourning. They were constantly reminded by the preachers’ sermons, newscasts, hearsay, and more.
Clay you said...
ReplyDeleteHis being on a different intellectual level than his classmates would have undoubtedly had negative effects on his sanity. Dylan's eventual violence could have been sparked by his feeling of difference from his peers, as well as his previously discussed parental guidence. Teenagers need to feel accepted. Without someone who truly understood Dylan, he was, basically, all alone.
That never really occured to me; he was, in a sense, all alone because of his differences. I agree that those differences, especially after his transition from the gifted program to the school without a separate program, could have, in fact, led to his violence.
Megan you said...
ReplyDeleteDick and Eric are both sociopaths. They have no feelings for the people around them. Both of them were seemingly normal on the outside looking in, and had very charismatic personalities that allowed them to manipulate other people. Dylan and Perry are both more soft spoken, and seem to work for the approval of Eric and Dick. Like Dick, I'm sure Eric preyed on Dylan's longing to belong and exploited it for his diabolical plot.
I love the way you relate Dylan to Perry and Eric to Dick. I completely agree - in both relationships, the dominant counterpart manipulates his assistant (Eric to Dylan, Dick to Perry) by preying on their weaknesses (for Dylan, the need to be accepted).
Chanan said...
ReplyDelete"I can see where the people who took the polls are coming from, but you also have to look at where the parents are coming from. They cannot necessarrily be blamed for their child's behavious especially in a situation like this. For all we know, the killers showed no signs. Also, the lists are just stereotypes. Just because they enjoy certain music or movies, doesn't mean that that particular thing makes them start a shooting."
- I agree. Under these circumstances, the parents cannot be blamed. They raised their children decently and provided them with an adequate life. The polls were filled with myths and stereotypes. In fact, I guarantee that if each person that participated in the poll was provided with an accurate background and biography of Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold prior to taking the poll, the results would differ drastically. Unaware, people blamed the most common suspects, the murderer’s parents.
Jazmine said...
ReplyDelete"The part when the Rohrbough family learned about Danny's death struck me. The way Danny's life was portrayed and the things he would have done if he were still alive definitely pulled at my heart strings. He had soooo many things going for him, but unfortunately they will never be fullfilled."
- I was most affected by the story of the Rohrbough family, too. Cullen accurately describes Danny’s plans for the future. He seemed to have everything finalized and figured out. Sadly, his aspirations were shot down. Another gloomy part to the story was how his father found out about his death; he recognized a gruesome picture of his son in the newspaper.
Stuart said...
ReplyDelete“Honestly, I agreed most with Marxhausen's interpretation based solely on the fact that he wanted to address the issue head on whereas others were focused on pinning the whole thing on Satan. He seemed to want to find answers quicker and put the blame on those directly responsible for the actions at Columbine.”
- Marxhausen’s reaction was different, barely involving any aspect of religion. However, his was the most practical. As opposed to the other reverends, Marxhausen decided to address the actual murderers, instead of accusing Satan for playing a large role in provoking Eric and Dylan. Marxhausen was one of few that somewhat understood that the motivation behind the killers was beyond some typical myth.