Read through the questions listed below and respond to five questions as you read Part I: Female Down. Each answer should be posted separately. Remember to copy and paste the question you are answering in your response. In addition to answering five questions, you should also respond to five answers from your classmates, offering your own insight on their point of view. Think of this as a written Socratic Seminar. When you respond to a comment, remember to address your classmate by name and copy and paste their comment before your response.
Deadline: Friday, Oct. 1, 11:59 p.m.
Part I: Female Down
Class Discussion Questions
1. Columbine begins with an assembly at the High School on the Friday before the attack. Considering there are several perspectives that he could have taken (beginning with the attacks or starting with events that triggered the attacks) how does this opening work for you - does it draw you into the atmosphere of the school well?
2. The dedication is to the thirteen people killed and to Patrick Ireland. Did you notice this? Did you find yourself checking (as I did) to see if you were reading about someone who died in the attacks as you went through the book? How did this affect your reading?
3. There are two epigraphs in the book - one from Hemingway and one from Dostoyevsky. What do you think Cullen is trying to say by including these?
4. Did the Author's Note on the sources give you information that was useful in your reading of the book? For example - did it help to know that no dialogue was made up in the book? Do you feel that notes of this sort give you more confidence in reading a non-fiction work?
5. What strikes you about Frank DeAngelis' (Mr. D) relationship with the kids at Columbine? Do you believe that there would have been a different outcome if he hadn't been principal?
6. Cullen writes about Eric and Dylan's preparations for the prom, their work at the pizza shop and their nicknames 'Reb' and 'VoDKa.' Did it strike you how normal they seemed? Did they seem like typical teens to you? Does this make them more frightening and/or make their actions harder to understand?
7. Beginning with a section on page 10 ('Rebel Hill slopes gradually....') and at the beginning of the chapter 'Springtime' Cullen develops vivid descriptions of the school setting and the student body. Did you feel that this gave you an adequate picture of the school environment? Does it seem similar to secondary schools that you have known? If yes, does this make the book more difficult for you to read?
8. How does Cullen's portrayal of Eric and Dylan compare to Truman Capote's portrayal of Dick and Perry from In Cold Blood?
9. In 'Two Columbines' Cullen begins to introduce his audience to people who were attacked and their families (Dave Sanders, Linda Sanders, Patrick Ireland and Cassie Bernall). How was it to be introduced to these people? Several people mentioned having to put the book down while reading. Was this one of those points for you?
10. What rhetorical strategies did you find most effective in Part I?
11. After reaching the conlusion of Part I, how would you characterize Cullen's tone and purpose?
12. In 'Judgment' and 'Female Down' we are given a rundown of the events on April 20th, the day of the attack on Columbine High School. Were there any things that stood out particularly about they events as they unfold? Do you think that if Deputy Gardiner had been in the lunch room that things would have turned out differently? Were you surprised at the demeanor of Eric and Dylan? What was your opinion of the reactions of the adults in charge in the school - would you have done anything differently?
13. What was your reaction to the problems created with cellphones overwhelming the operators? Do you think this would be worse now? How do you think this affected the reporting? Did the '24 hour news cycle' come into play here - that is, were the news agencies running with any information they could get - including cellphone calls from inside the school? Should the news shows have carried live telephone calls from the students? Why or why not? Do you think that this sort of coverage should depend on the news item being covered (i.e., if it does not put people in danger, should these sources be used)?
14. By the time the networks went live (at noon) there were hundreds of uniformed responders present. Given the size of the force, what do you think of the response? What do you feel they could have done differently?
15. Cullen begins writing about the parents responses in '1 Bleeding to Death.' Are there any particular responses that stood out to you?
16. What was your opinion of Sheriff John Stone at the beginning of the book? Did your opinion change as you read on?
17. Cullen writes about the reactions of Robyn Anderson and Nate Dykeman after the attack started. What did you think of their reactions? Should they have given the police information? Or were they just as scared and shocked as everyone else?
18. What did you think of the reaction of the Klebolds? Were you surprised that Tom suspected his son right away? Does it seem particularly odd that he reacted this way, given the response of the Harrises
19. In 'First Assumption' introduces the audience to Dwayne Fuselier. What do you think of his response to the attack as opposed to the other law enforcement officers? Were you impressed by his competence initially? Do you think that (because we have been introduced to others such as Sheriff Stone) we are more inclined to view him favorably in contrast? Did Cullen do this purposefully?
20. What is the 'First Assumption'? Is it that there was a terrorist attack? That there were hostages? Or that it was a large conspiracy? Or does this refer to the assumptions of the news media? In retrospect do these assumptions make sense (i.e., can you understand why there was this confusion)?
21. What is your opinion of the news media's questions such as 'were they outcasts' - and they use of the word 'they' to indicate some sort of groupthink? Why do you think that the notion of the 'Trenchcoat Mafia' was seized on so readily? Why do you think these early notions were not corrected as it became clear they were wrong? Do you think that mistakes of this sort lead to the 'school shooter profile'? To what degree does looking for easy explanations for complex problems come into play to explain these sorts of notions?
22. In 'The Boy In The Window' we are told the story of Patrick Ireland's survival. What struck you most about the events involved in his rescue? Were you surprised at the level of detail we were presented about this event?
23. Miscommunication seems to have begun as soon as the first press conference was held - that there were three shooters, that 25 people were dead and errors about the motives. What was the impact of these erroneous assumptions? Do you feel that they should not have had the press conference - or if it was held, what should have been done to improve on it?
24. As opposed to Robyn and Nate, Chris Morris called police right away. Given what happened to him, do you think he did the right thing? Do you think he accidentally made himself the center of the investigation, as Eric and Dylan were dead?
25. Sue Klebold said that she felt as if they had been hit by a hurricane - and a lawyer told her that people were going to hate her. How do you feel towards her at this point in the book? Do you empathize with her - or do you have conflicted feelings?
26. In 'Last Bus' and 'Vacuuming' Cullen shares the anguish of Brian Rorhbough, Misty Bernall and Linda Sanders. What are your thoughts concerning their reactions to the deaths of their loved ones? Did any particular reactions surprise you - or resonate with you? Were you able to put yourself in their place?
27. Other than the comparisons of the killers, what similarities do you notice between Columbine and In Cold Blood?
28. Why does Cullen title his chapters? What role do these titles play in the message Cullen is trying to convey?
29. Cullen is telling a story for which we already know the outcome. How does he make the story compelling?
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25. Sue Klebold said that she felt as if they had been hit by a hurricane - and a lawyer told her that people were going to hate her. How do you feel towards her at this point in the book? Do you empathize with her - or do you have conflicted feelings?
ReplyDeleteI feel like Sue Klebold was a parent who thought she had a relatively clear idea of who her high school student was. She probably assumed his moods and distance were "typical" behavior for a teenager. The cliche "hindsight is 20/20" definitely applies to Sue Klebold. I feel sorry for her, but at the same time I wonder how she could be so oblivious to her son's true nature. I can't imagine what would be worse: to have your child murdered or to have your child commit murder. I'm sure Sue Klebold felt very lonely in her grief, but if I'm being honest, I feel less sorry for her than I do for the other parents because I think if she'd been more aware the tragedy could have been prevented. It's like Cullen writes though--Dyland and Eric are dead, so the anger and blame passes to their parents.
Columbine begins with an assembly at the High School on the Friday before the attack. Considering there are several perspectives that he could have taken (beginning with the attacks or starting with events that triggered the attacks) how does this opening work for you - does it draw you into the atmosphere of the school well?
ReplyDeleteThe beginning with the assembly works really well for me. I feel like Cullen does a really good job showing how Columbine was before the incident and how Eric and Dylan were. The fact that he starts with the assembly shows the audience that Columbine was just like a regular school, and the audience can relate to that. :)
Jordanna you said...
ReplyDeleteThe beginning with the assembly works really well for me. I feel like Cullen does a really good job showing how Columbine was before the incident and how Eric and Dylan were. The fact that he starts with the assembly shows the audience that Columbine was just like a regular school, and the audience can relate to that. :)
I completely agree with you on this. I could definately relate to the story more easily. Columbine was just like a regular school, with regular students. Like in the book, things like this could happen at any time, anywhere.
2. The dedication is to the thirteen people killed and to Patrick Ireland. Did you notice this? Did you find yourself checking (as I did) to see if you were reading about someone who died in the attacks as you went through the book? How did this affect your reading?
ReplyDeleteYes, I notieced this as well. I continuously would see if one of the people I was reading about was one the book was dedicated to. This also affected my reading by realizing that these were real people, with real lives, and real stories. They had a family and then, because of those two students, they were gone. Having these names allowed me to feel closer to them and like I was personally a part of that school.
6. Cullen writes about Eric and Dylan's preparations for the prom, their work at the pizza shop and their nicknames 'Reb' and 'VoDKa.' Did it strike you how normal they seemed? Did they seem like typical teens to you? Does this make them more frightening and/or make their actions harder to understand?
ReplyDeleteThis made me realize just how normal they are. They had friends and they went to parties, just like typical teenagers we know today. This makes their actions almost more difficult to understand because of how "normal" they seemed. It was almost unreal to me.
4. Did the Author's Note on the sources give you information that was useful in your reading of the book? For example - did it help to know that no dialogue was made up in the book? Do you feel that notes of this sort give you more confidence in reading a non-fiction work?
ReplyDeleteMost definately. Knowing that none of the dialogue was made up definately made the author more reliable on the events of the book. They allow me to trust the author and his sources on a topic of such a tragic event.
8. How does Cullen's portrayal of Eric and Dylan compare to Truman Capote's portrayal of Dick and Perry from In Cold Blood?
ReplyDeleteCullen portrays Eric and Dylan as innocent teenagers and almost allow the ready to feel sympathy for them. Capote also did this for the killers Dick and Perry. Also, I noticed that Dylan kind of follows Eric around just as Perry kind of followed Dick around. Almost like a side-kick.
29. Cullen is telling a story for which we already know the outcome. How does he make the story compelling?
ReplyDeleteThis also happens in In Cold Blood. We already know who the killers are. Although we already know the outcome, we don't know what went on "behind the scenes." Cullen allows us to get into the student body and understand the thought process of the killers.
6. Cullen writes about Eric and Dylan's preparations for the prom, their work at the pizza shop and their nicknames 'Reb' and 'VoDKa.' Did it strike you how normal they seemed? Did they seem like typical teens to you? Does this make them more frightening and/or make their actions harder to understand?
ReplyDeleteTo me, the most surprising thing about Eric and Dylan is that they were both extremely smart. It seems counterintuitive that a pair of students who drank alcohol, “liked to pick on younger kids” (9), and would plan and attempt to execute a mass murder would be this intelligent. (Eric’s intelligence and careful planning in particular adds irony to the failure of the bombs.) By the end of Chapter 2, Eric and Dylan didn’t seem typical at all; each seems to have two personalities. In the classroom, both were very smart, but Eric had much more confidence than Dylan. However, both loved to break the rules. Dylan misbehaved in full view while Eric did a better job of hiding his “wild side.” The fact that Eric generally “gauged his moves and determined just how much he could get away with” (9) makes his planning of the massacre seem paradoxical.
Chanan, you said
ReplyDelete"Yes, I notieced this as well. I continuously would see if one of the people I was reading about was one the book was dedicated to. This also affected my reading by realizing that these were real people, with real lives, and real stories. They had a family and then, because of those two students, they were gone. Having these names allowed me to feel closer to them and like I was personally a part of that school."
To be honest, I skipped over the dedication page, but, looking back at it, I agree with your point that the names make us feel like we're part of the school. This feeling allows us to sympathize with the victims since we see them as real people.
8. How does Cullen's portrayal of Eric and Dylan compare to Truman Capote's portrayal of Dick and Perry from In Cold Blood?
ReplyDeleteEric was like Dick because he meticulously planned the crime and had so much confidence in himself that he didn’t make a backup plan. Dylan was like Perry because he “acted like a tough guy” (7), constantly seeking Eric’s approval. In In Cold Blood, Dick comes up with the plans and Perry follows along. Similarly, in Columbine, Eric comes up with a plan he believes is foolproof, down to the exact minute and location with “maximum human density” (35), but Dylan, like Perry, “was eased into killing” (33). Another striking similarity is that Dave Cullen, like Truman Capote, alternates between the lives of the murderers and the victims to lead up to the killings.
(By the way, to type in italics, just use "em" at the beginning and "/em" at the end of the text to be italicized, except with <> instead of "".)
Chanan, you said
ReplyDelete"Cullen portrays Eric and Dylan as innocent teenagers and almost allow the ready to feel sympathy for them. Capote also did this for the killers Dick and Perry. Also, I noticed that Dylan kind of follows Eric around just as Perry kind of followed Dick around. Almost like a side-kick."
I noticed this almost instantly. The connection between the two pairs of murderers makes me wonder whether pairs of criminals, especially murderers, usually consist of a "leader" and a "follower." Cullen makes it obvious who the leader is when he mentions how Eric and Dylan came to smoke Camel cigarettes: "Eric picked it; Dylan followed" (11). The cigarettes here seem to be a symbol of their rebellion in general.
Chanan said: This made me realize just how normal they are. They had friends and they went to parties, just like typical teenagers we know today. This makes their actions almost more difficult to understand because of how "normal" they seemed. It was almost unreal to me.
ReplyDeleteStephen said: To me, the most surprising thing about Eric and Dylan is that they were both extremely smart. It seems counterintuitive that a pair of students who drank alcohol, “liked to pick on younger kids” (9), and would plan and attempt to execute a mass murder would be this intelligent. (Eric’s intelligence and careful planning in particular adds irony to the failure of the bombs.) By the end of Chapter 2, Eric and Dylan didn’t seem typical at all; each seems to have two personalities. In the classroom, both were very smart, but Eric had much more confidence than Dylan. However, both loved to break the rules. Dylan misbehaved in full view while Eric did a better job of hiding his “wild side.” The fact that Eric generally “gauged his moves and determined just how much he could get away with” (9) makes his planning of the massacre seem paradoxical.
Chanan and Stephen, Your comments really resonated with me. I think we, as a society, look for compelling reasons when people commit such henious crimes. One of the myths that Cullen is trying to dispel is this idea that Dylan and Eric were picked on, loners, outcasts, etc. and that those are the reasons they acted so violently. The idea that they were "normal kids" somehow makes their actions more terrifying. When we watch "Bowling for Columbine" look for the disparities between Michael Moore's portrayal of Eric and Dylan compared to Cullen's portrayal.
Chanan you said...
ReplyDelete"This made me realize just how normal they are. They had friends and they went to parties, just like typical teenagers we know today. This makes their actions almost more difficult to understand because of how "normal" they seemed. It was almost unreal to me."
I completely agree with you! Its hard to undestand why they did what they did because they were social kids. They weren't outcasts who didn't have any friends. It's just odd!
14. By the time the networks went live (at noon) there were hundreds of uniformed responders present. Given the size of the force, what do you think of the response? What do you feel they could have done differently?
ReplyDeleteGiven the size of the responders (police force) I don't think their response was very effective in regards to going into the school and stopping Dylan and Eric. They did a great job shuttling the students to a safer place, but I feel that if the SWAT or any other force sneaked into the school and tried to find the killers maybe they could have saved the lives of some of the students that died. Instead they stood outside for hours hoping kids would come out.
8.How does Cullen's portrayal of Eric and Dylan compare to Truman Capote's portrayal of Dick and Perry from In Cold Blood?
ReplyDeleteCullen portrayed Eric and Dylan as ordinary boys that did "normal" teenage stuff. Of course one was the leader (Eric) and one was the follower (Dylan). This compares to Capotes portrayal of Dick and Perry because they appeared to be your typical guy getting in and out of trouble. He describes them as "regular" human beings instead of animals (like everyone thought) just like Cullen describes Eric and Dylan as the "typical" teen.
Stephen you said...
ReplyDelete"I noticed this almost instantly. The connection between the two pairs of murderers makes me wonder whether pairs of criminals, especially murderers, usually consist of a "leader" and a "follower." Cullen makes it obvious who the leader is when he mentions how Eric and Dylan came to smoke Camel cigarettes: "Eric picked it; Dylan followed" (11). The cigarettes here seem to be a symbol of their rebellion in general."
I agree with you when you said that criminals always seem to consist of a "leader" and a "follower". In the novel In Cold Blood, Dick was the leader and Perry was the follower just like Eric was the leader and Dylan was the follower. The only difference I noticed between the pairs was the Eric (the leader) was the one doing most of the shooting and In Cold Blood Perry (the "follower") was the one who killed the family. The roles of the leader and follower were reversed.
1. Columbine begins with an assembly at the High School on the Friday before the attack. Considering there are several perspectives that he could have taken (beginning with the attacks or starting with events that triggered the attacks) how does this opening work for you - does it draw you into the atmosphere of the school well?
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, the heartfelt closing to the principal's speech was very easy to relate to in that most our very principal says the same before our prom. The fact that the opening included an emotional section allowed me to feel like Columbine High School was a close knit community that would love and protect one another. The opening foreshadows a tragic event and presents an ironic twist to set the tone for an eventful weekend and week.
29. Cullen is telling a story for which we already know the outcome. How does he make the story compelling?
ReplyDeleteCullen tells a well-known tragedy, which some may see as defeating the purpose. On the contrary. Cullen pays attention to minute details and includes first-hand accounts to convey to the reader the importance of each moment leading up to the killings. The fact that Cullen has pieced together the events in chronological order is amazing in that he makes the reader connect to the characters, up until they unleash on their schoolmates. On the whole, Cullen's attention to detail and inclusion of important background information that ties into the killings provides an important element to a compelling storyline.
Jazmine you said...
ReplyDeleteGiven the size of the responders (police force) I don't think their response was very effective in regards to going into the school and stopping Dylan and Eric. They did a great job shuttling the students to a safer place, but I feel that if the SWAT or any other force sneaked into the school and tried to find the killers maybe they could have saved the lives of some of the students that died. Instead they stood outside for hours hoping kids would come out.
I agree with you. I think the responders could have done a better job at stopping the actually shooting by finding Eric and Dylan. But at the same time, we weren't there during the shooting. For all we know, that could have only caused more trouble. Who knows?
Stuart, you said...
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, the heartfelt closing to the principal's speech was very easy to relate to in that most our very principal says the same before our prom. The fact that the opening included an emotional section allowed me to feel like Columbine High School was a close knit community that would love and protect one another. The opening foreshadows a tragic event and presents an ironic twist to set the tone for an eventful weekend and week.
I felt the same way. This definately made the school seem "real." Because it was. It amazes me how close that school was. Little did they know just how eventful that week would be!
Jazmine, you said...
ReplyDeleteCullen portrayed Eric and Dylan as ordinary boys that did "normal" teenage stuff. Of course one was the leader (Eric) and one was the follower (Dylan). This compares to Capotes portrayal of Dick and Perry because they appeared to be your typical guy getting in and out of trouble. He describes them as "regular" human beings instead of animals (like everyone thought) just like Cullen describes Eric and Dylan as the "typical" teen.
I agree with you. Both of these pairs of killers were pretty much considered "normal." There was a leader and follower in both situations and it's interesting to me how much more dangerous a situation like that could be.
4. Did the Author's Note on the sources give you information that was useful in your reading of the book? For example - did it help to know that no dialogue was made up in the book? Do you feel that notes of this sort give you more confidence in reading a non-fiction work?
ReplyDeleteYes, I think that the information on the back of the book helped a lot with the security that all of the dialogue wasn't made up. The fact that Cullen puts all of the sources in the back gives the reader more confidence in the fact that what the author is writing is accurate.
Stuart, you said...
ReplyDeleteCullen tells a well-known tragedy, which some may see as defeating the purpose. On the contrary. Cullen pays attention to minute details and includes first-hand accounts to convey to the reader the importance of each moment leading up to the killings. The fact that Cullen has pieced together the events in chronological order is amazing in that he makes the reader connect to the characters, up until they unleash on their schoolmates. On the whole, Cullen's attention to detail and inclusion of important background information that ties into the killings provides an important element to a compelling storyline.
Stuart, I also picked up on the fact that the detailed background information tied to the killings effectively. This, again, made the victims and killers seem even more real. Cullen's detail makes the story that much more realiable.
Stuart you said...
ReplyDeleteCullen tells a well-known tragedy, which some may see as defeating the purpose. On the contrary. Cullen pays attention to minute details and includes first-hand accounts to convey to the reader the importance of each moment leading up to the killings. The fact that Cullen has pieced together the events in chronological order is amazing in that he makes the reader connect to the characters, up until they unleash on their schoolmates. On the whole, Cullen's attention to detail and inclusion of important background information that ties into the killings provides an important element to a compelling storyline
Yes, I agree with you on that. The fact that he writes with intricate detailing and first-hand accounts makes the story really come together.
Stuart said...
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, the heartfelt closing to the principal's speech was very easy to relate to in that most our very principal says the same before our prom. The fact that the opening included an emotional section allowed me to feel like Columbine High School was a close knit community that would love and protect one another. The opening foreshadows a tragic event and presents an ironic twist to set the tone for an eventful weekend and week.
Yes, I think the same way. The fact that he writes what the principal said to the students really helps his audience relate to the story on a more personal level.
Jordanna you said...
ReplyDelete"Yes, I think that the information on the back of the book helped a lot with the security that all of the dialogue wasn't made up. The fact that Cullen puts all of the sources in the back gives the reader more confidence in the fact that what the author is writing is accurate. "
I feel the same way. I think the information kind of reassures the reader that what he was saying wasn't fabricated.
Stuart said...
ReplyDelete"In my opinion, the heartfelt closing to the principal's speech was very easy to relate to in that most our very principal says the same before our prom. The fact that the opening included an emotional section allowed me to feel like Columbine High School was a close knit community that would love and protect one another. The opening foreshadows a tragic event and presents an ironic twist to set the tone for an eventful weekend and week."
I totally agree with you on that. The way Mr. D talks to the students as if he was a caring father draws me into the story. They seemed like a family and I think the bond between the community makes it even more confusing as to why Eric and Dylan decided to kill their fellow schoolmates.
5. What strikes you about Frank DeAngelis' (Mr. D) relationship with the kids at Columbine? Do you believe that there would have been a different outcome if he hadn't been principal?
ReplyDeleteI think that Frank DeAngelis has a close and respectful relationship with the kids at Columbine. He is like a parent to the kids because he cares about them so much and he is someone that they can talk to. I don't believe that there would have been a different outcome if he had not been the principal because I think either way the shooting still would've taken place no matter who was in charge.
Jazmine said...
ReplyDeleteCullen portrayed Eric and Dylan as ordinary boys that did "normal" teenage stuff. Of course one was the leader (Eric) and one was the follower (Dylan). This compares to Capotes portrayal of Dick and Perry because they appeared to be your typical guy getting in and out of trouble. He describes them as "regular" human beings instead of animals (like everyone thought) just like Cullen describes Eric and Dylan as the "typical" teen.
I definately agree with you. The way the author describes both Dick and Perry and Eric and Dylan, makes them seem just like any other guys. You wouldnt expect either to do something like murder innocent people.
29. Cullen is telling a story for which we already know the outcome. How does he make the story compelling?
ReplyDeleteCullen makes the story complelling because he gives us in depth details of how the shooting took place and what was being done to assist the situation. The way he explains to the audience how the parents and the students felt and reacted to the shooting/bombing makes is easy to understand exactly how bad and how frigtening the rampage was.
6. Cullen writes about Eric and Dylan's preparations for the prom, their work at the pizza shop and their nicknames 'Reb' and 'VoDKa.' Did it strike you how normal they seemed? Did they seem like typical teens to you? Does this make them more frightening and/or make their actions harder to understand?
ReplyDeleteIt did seem like they were just typical teens. They didn't really do anything too out of the ordinary and it didn't seem like either teen had any major problems. Because they seemed so normal, it makes it harder to think about how they could do such a thing.It's definately something you would not expect from two teens like them.
Jordanna said...
ReplyDelete"Yes, I think that the information on the back of the book helped a lot with the security that all of the dialogue wasn't made up. The fact that Cullen puts all of the sources in the back gives the reader more confidence in the fact that what the author is writing is accurate. "
I totally agree with you. By putting the information about the sources in the book, the reader can see that these are facts. We can see that what he is saying really is true and this is really what happend
17. Cullen writes about the reactions of Robyn Anderson and Nate Dykeman after the attack started. What did you think of their reactions? Should they have given the police information? Or were they just as scared and shocked as everyone else?
ReplyDeleteI think that they should have given their information to the police (like Chris did), but were scared. I felt bad for them because they didn't know that Eric and Dylan were going to shoot up their school and once they found out what was happening they were shocked and guilt ridden.
Jazmine said...
ReplyDeleteI think that Frank DeAngelis has a close and respectful relationship with the kids at Columbine. He is like a parent to the kids because he cares about them so much and he is someone that they can talk to. I don't believe that there would have been a different outcome if he had not been the principal because I think either way the shooting still would've taken place no matter who was in charge.
I agree with you on this. I think Frank DeAngelis has a really good relationship with his students. He interacts with them and they respect him. I also think that the shooting still would have occured if he hadnt been principle. It wasn't anything that he did or didn't do that caused the shooting to occur.
1. Columbine begins with an assembly at the High School on the Friday before the attack. Considering there are several perspectives that he could have taken (beginning with the attacks or starting with events that triggered the attacks) how does this opening work for you - does it draw you into the atmosphere of the school well?
ReplyDeleteI think beginning the book with the school assembly was a great opening for this story. It seems like it's a regular high school and there doesnt seem to be anything out of the ordinary about it.
1. Columbine begins with an assembly at the High School on the Friday before the attack. Considering there are several perspectives that he could have taken (beginning with the attacks or starting with events that triggered the attacks) how does this opening work for you - does it draw you into the atmosphere of the school well?
ReplyDeleteUsing a calm and ordinary event such as the assembly gives a different feel to the story of Columbine. Most people who would read this book more than likely already have a knowledge of the tragic shooting. However, visualizing the normal atmosphere before the incident would cause the reader to feel more emotion once they reach that point in the book.
6. Cullen writes about Eric and Dylan's preparations for the prom, their work at the pizza shop and their nicknames 'Reb' and 'VoDKa.' Did it strike you how normal they seemed? Did they seem like typical teens to you? Does this make them more frightening and/or make their actions harder to understand?
ReplyDeleteNo, it didn't strike me how normal they were. They were regular teenagers, not monsters. It doesn't make them more frightening in my opinion. I think that it makes it seem like they are just regular teens with a fantasy of one day going around and killing their school mates. It doesn't really sound normal, but they were just regular kids like you and me.
7. Beginning with a section on page 10 ('Rebel Hill slopes gradually....') and at the beginning of the chapter 'Springtime' Cullen develops vivid descriptions of the school setting and the student body. Did you feel that this gave you an adequate picture of the school environment? Does it seem similar to secondary schools that you have known? If yes, does this make the book more difficult for you to read?
ReplyDeleteYes, i felt like he did a good job portraying the picture of the the school with imagery. The fact that he described where Columbine was located made me really see where it was. No, it doesn't really seem like any schools that I have known. Therefore, it doesn't make it difficult for me to read at all.
Jasmine said..
ReplyDeleteUsing a calm and ordinary event such as the assembly gives a different feel to the story of Columbine. Most people who would read this book more than likely already have a knowledge of the tragic shooting. However, visualizing the normal atmosphere before the incident would cause the reader to feel more emotion once they reach that point in the book.
I completely agree with you on that point. Beginning the book with ordinary events really does make the reader experience more emotion when the tragedy happens.
Elizabeth said...
ReplyDeleteI think beginning the book with the school assembly was a great opening for this story. It seems like it's a regular high school and there doesnt seem to be anything out of the ordinary about it.
I absolutely agree with you on this. Starting the story with a regular setting shows the reader that this could happen to anyone.
8. How does Cullen's portrayal of Eric and Dylan compare to Truman Capote's portrayal of Dick and Perry from In Cold Blood?
ReplyDeleteCullen's portrayal of Eric and Dylan are compared to Dick and Perry from In Cold Blood in the fact that it is really evident that Eric is the leader, just like Dick was in In Cold Blood. The fact that Dylan also didn't shoot shows that he was a bit of a sentimental guy, just like Perry was. Eric, on the other hand, seems like he likes to do evil and that is proved when he shoots many bullents and Dylan barely shoots any. Just like Eric, Dick also did the most "evil" thinking in In Cold Blood.
Jazmine said...
ReplyDeleteCullen makes the story complelling because he gives us in depth details of how the shooting took place and what was being done to assist the situation. The way he explains to the audience how the parents and the students felt and reacted to the shooting/bombing makes is easy to understand exactly how bad and how frigtening the rampage was.
I think the same as you! The way he uses an appeal to pathos makes the audience feel sympathy for the parents and the loss of their sons or daughters.
24. As opposed to Robyn and Nate, Chris Morris called police right away. Given what happened to him, do you think he did the right thing? Do you think he accidentally made himself the center of the investigation, as Eric and Dylan were dead?
ReplyDeleteChris Morris was right to give the police all of the information he had. He took a huge risk of having himself implicated in the crime in order to do the right thing. I don't think he was made the center attention of the investigation, but he probably helped the police to better understand the killings.
-Robyn and Nate probably should have told the police as soon as they thought they could help. However, it will only make them feel more guilty about the situation because they don't tell.
2. The dedication is to the thirteen people killed and to Patrick Ireland. Did you notice this? Did you find yourself checking (as I did) to see if you were reading about someone who died in the attacks as you went through the book? How did this affect your reading?
ReplyDelete-I did not read the dedication until I read this question, however I did check up on the fates of several of the characters mentioned in the book. I think Patrick Ireland was in the dedication because he had very severe injuries that were extremely life threatening that he was able to overcome. It is nice to read a story with real characters who grew up in a time period close to our own. It is nice to verify these are actual people, and it is more emotional and hard to believe because it is easy to put yourself in the situation and relate easily to the characters.
18. What did you think of the reaction of the Klebolds? Were you surprised that Tom suspected his son right away? Does it seem particularly odd that he reacted this way, given the response of the Harrises
ReplyDelete-I thought it was incredible and amazingly selfless to think of the lives of innocent people being killed and the morality of the issue when their own son was involved. This was probably extremely difficult for them as parents. I was surprised that Tom called the police immediately, it seems unlikely that a parent would come to terms with the situation so quickly. Eric worked harder to conceal his dark side than Dylan. Eric matches up with the typical signs of a sociopath and has a lot of charisma he is able to manipulate other people with. His parents were fooled into thinking that he was a fairly normal kid. Dylan, who does not seem to have lead the event or taken much pleasure in it, is probably killing the people for different reasons than Eric. Dylan was probably not a sociopath like Eric, and was unable to disguise his personality. He looked more the part and did not have the social skills that probably helped Eric evade suspicion. This probably made Dylan's parents more likely to believe he was capable of something so horrific.
9. In 'Two Columbines' Cullen begins to introduce his audience to people who were attacked and their families (Dave Sanders, Linda Sanders, Patrick Ireland and Cassie Bernall). How was it to be introduced to these people? Several people mentioned having to put the book down while reading. Was this one of those points for you?
ReplyDelete-Learning about the victims and people affected made the killings more personal. You were able to see their lives full of hopes for the future that many of them would be unable to witness. I had to put the book down several times, it's very emotional. The characters are easily relatable to people you know and are close to you. You put yourself in their situation or imagine the same incident playing out with the people that you love and become attached to the story and begin to understand the kind of hurt the people affected in the Columbine murders endured.
6. Cullen writes about Eric and Dylan's preparations for the prom, their work at the pizza shop and their nicknames 'Reb' and 'VoDKa.' Did it strike you how normal they seemed? Did they seem like typical teens to you? Does this make them more frightening and/or make their actions harder to understand?
ReplyDelete-Up until the actual time of the killings, Eric and Dylan went about their normal business. This is scary because there were no apparent warning signs. They seemed like the average teenager with friends and relationships. It's terrifying that they were unable to keep up such a convincing facade. It's much easier to picture them as outcasts who were obviously disturbed, strange people that no one associates with because they emanate danger and unease. It calms people down because it's easily indicated as a threat and something that can be prevented.
*in line 5 of my last paragraph, posted at 9:20 PM, i meant to say able instead of unable
ReplyDeleteJordanna said...
ReplyDelete"The beginning with the assembly works really well for me. I feel like Cullen does a really good job showing how Columbine was before the incident and how Eric and Dylan were. The fact that he starts with the assembly shows the audience that Columbine was just like a regular school, and the audience can relate to that. :)"
-I completely agree! He portrays them as a tight knit family. Some of them were going on to college soon and you get a sense of celebration and completion for many of them. There was so much hope for the future.
13. What was your reaction to the problems created with cellphones overwhelming the operators? Do you think this would be worse now? How do you think this affected the reporting? Did the '24 hour news cycle' come into play here - that is, were the news agencies running with any information they could get - including cellphone calls from inside the school? Should the news shows have carried live telephone calls from the students? Why or why not? Do you think that this sort of coverage should depend on the news item being covered (i.e., if it does not put people in danger, should these sources be used)?
ReplyDeleteTo me, it seems natural that the panic during a school shooting would cause a lot of people to make phone calls – to family, to 911, to newscasters, etc. It’s logical that, if enough panic ensues and enough people use their cell phones at once, the calls would overwhelm the operators. Calls from inside the school, especially from wounded or traumatized students and those who knew the killers, should have been the ideal source for information about the Columbine massacre. There was so much confusion that, at first, no one had any answers, so, in order to keep the news going, the media used all of the calls, even the contradictory ones. The fact that the calls were inconsistent shows that extreme fear caused those at Columbine to “imagine missing details without realizing they’re doing it” (53). However, I believe that such sources should be used, especially in this case of extreme danger, since any news about the crime, even if it is slightly inaccurate in the beginning, still warns others (parents of the students at Columbine, for example) about the murders so that they have some indication of what is going on.
Chanan said...
ReplyDelete"Cullen portrays Eric and Dylan as innocent teenagers and almost allow the ready to feel sympathy for them. Capote also did this for the killers Dick and Perry. Also, I noticed that Dylan kind of follows Eric around just as Perry kind of followed Dick around. Almost like a side-kick."
-I completely agree, Dylan almost seems to just want to please Eric or imitate him because he idolizes him. Since I'm nearly positive that Eric was a sociopath, I'm sure he was able to easily manipulate Dylan and toy with his emotions. He probably made up a justification that appealed to Dylan's decision to take part in the shooting.
Stephen said...
ReplyDelete"To me, the most surprising thing about Eric and Dylan is that they were both extremely smart. It seems counterintuitive that a pair of students who drank alcohol, “liked to pick on younger kids” (9), and would plan and attempt to execute a mass murder would be this intelligent. (Eric’s intelligence and careful planning in particular adds irony to the failure of the bombs.) By the end of Chapter 2, Eric and Dylan didn’t seem typical at all; each seems to have two personalities. In the classroom, both were very smart, but Eric had much more confidence than Dylan. However, both loved to break the rules. Dylan misbehaved in full view while Eric did a better job of hiding his “wild side.” The fact that Eric generally “gauged his moves and determined just how much he could get away with” (9) makes his planning of the massacre seem paradoxical."
-I completely agree. Eric and Dylan weren't actually the typical teenager. They were deeply disturbed. Yet they lived a typical teenage life, or at least shown to the outside world.
Megan, you said
ReplyDelete"Up until the actual time of the killings, Eric and Dylan went about their normal business. This is scary because there were no apparent warning signs. They seemed like the average teenager with friends and relationships. It's terrifying that they were unable to keep up such a convincing facade. It's much easier to picture them as outcasts who were obviously disturbed, strange people that no one associates with because they emanate danger and unease. It calms people down because it's easily indicated as a threat and something that can be prevented."
It does seem that "there were no apparent warning signs" before the morning of the murders, and I find this strange because, in most cases, there are some signs that lead to suspicion. Eric and Dylan keep acting "normal" until the day of the crime, when the strongest warning sign was that Eric had missed a psychology test. It seems that all Eric and Dylan wanted to do was create a legend, and it is very unfortunate that they succeeded.
Megan,
ReplyDeleteI'm glad you found my answer (to #6) valid. I got a little worried when Ms. Sarah said that they were normal kids, since I didn't get that impression from chapter 2. Eric in particular seemed to have a "split personality" that he kept bottled up inside of him. It had to burst out into the open someday.
Jordanna said...
ReplyDelete"No, it didn't strike me how normal they were. They were regular teenagers, not monsters. It doesn't make them more frightening in my opinion. I think that it makes it seem like they are just regular teens with a fantasy of one day going around and killing their school mates. It doesn't really sound normal, but they were just regular kids like you and me."
-Essentially, I really don't think they were normal. Sociopaths create a normal, charming image of themselves. Just like Ted Bundy, the serial killer. I feel almost positive that Eric was simply manipulating everyone around him in order to get what he wanted. I think his friends served entertainment with no sense of real emotion towards them. He obviously didn't care about his closest "friend" Dylan because he led him to his very death. He dated girls and was able to easily attract them, I'm sure he felt no legitimate connection with them and just used them. Eric had the upper hand in that he made people trust and like him, and he felt no feelings for them himself.
Jazmine said...
ReplyDelete"Given the size of the responders (police force) I don't think their response was very effective in regards to going into the school and stopping Dylan and Eric. They did a great job shuttling the students to a safer place, but I feel that if the SWAT or any other force sneaked into the school and tried to find the killers maybe they could have saved the lives of some of the students that died. Instead they stood outside for hours hoping kids would come out."
-I agree, but I also think that in the short time that it happened, they were unable to come up with a more effective solution. What I really do think could and most certainly should have been handled differently was the treatment of the victims. The parents of the victims were told that another bus was coming, and it gave the parents false hope. They should have been respected enough to have been told the complete truth. Another huge issue that was infuriating for me was the treatment of the bodies. The dead were left on the premises for days and some were outside in the elements (SNOW!!!). This was unsettling for the parents of the dead, who's emotions needed to be catered to the most in my opinion.
25. Sue Klebold said that she felt as if they had been hit by a hurricane - and a lawyer told her that people were going to hate her. How do you feel towards her at this point in the book? Do you empathize with her - or do you have conflicted feelings?
ReplyDeleteI feel very sorry for Sue because I have no doubt (having read this far) that she will be despised by not only the victims' relatives, but mainstream America. Americans have a very interesting tendency to feel like they have a right to other people's business without checking the facts or considering all sides of the story. With the widespread news coverage of the event, I'm sure that millions of people around America (and the world) feel that she is a terrible parent and if she had done a better job then the whole event would never have happened. I also imagine that a large percentage of these millions harassed and forwarded hate mail to her. Sue probably feels personally responsible for the crime, and she is likely extremely distraught by the fact that her son, who appeared to be a normal, happy kid, committed mass murder and then killed himself. I don't feel that it's fair to judge Sue, to hold her accountable for the massacre.
However, that being said, I reserve judgment until I've read the book. It's very possible that she was in fact a terrible mother and that we'll find out later that the whole thing was her fault. Perhaps she could have understood her son better, but perhaps not. She does have a certain measure of accountability for him by being his mother.
Mrs. Wheatley said:
ReplyDelete"I feel like Sue Klebold was a parent who thought she had a relatively clear idea of who her high school student was. She probably assumed his moods and distance were "typical" behavior for a teenager. The cliche "hindsight is 20/20" definitely applies to Sue Klebold. I feel sorry for her, but at the same time I wonder how she could be so oblivious to her son's true nature. I can't imagine what would be worse: to have your child murdered or to have your child commit murder. I'm sure Sue Klebold felt very lonely in her grief, but if I'm being honest, I feel less sorry for her than I do for the other parents because I think if she'd been more aware the tragedy could have been prevented. It's like Cullen writes though--Dyland and Eric are dead, so the anger and blame passes to their parents."
I agree with this somewhat. However, I have more sympathy for Sue than you do. Teenagers have made it an art form over the centuries to keep things from their parents. First we need to take into account a mother's natural tendency to overlook her son's faults. Then we have to realize that even if Sue saw some sort of warning signal from Dylan, her first instinct wouldn't have been "homicidal massacre alarm". Any strangeness coming from a teenager can be explained away by angst. And what was she supposed to do? It wasn't logical at the time to separate him from Eric, after all Eric was the perfect role model. There may have been more warning signs but at this point in the book I don't know what she could have seen. Maybe as I read on I'll lose sympathy for her.
18. What did you think of the reaction of the Klebolds? Were you surprised that Tom suspected his son right away? Does it seem particularly odd that he reacted this way, given the response of the Harrises?
ReplyDeleteI was surprised that the Klebolds thought so favorably of Dylan. Sue said that he was “extremely happy” (69), and Tom didn’t seem to suspect his son at all. In fact, “Tom was shocked” when the police found pipe bombs in the house. He believed that Dylan was also “anti-gun” and that the police would never find guns in the house. It seems strange that Tom would think so well of his son, since Dylan had proven to be a troublemaker, and openly so. Logically, Kathy and Wayne should have been the more cooperative parents since they had a better chance of still believing that Eric was the good kid he pretended to be than Sue and Tom had of believing Dylan to be “fine.” Kathy would only have tried to keep the police out of the basement if she knew that there was incriminating evidence against Eric because she would have no reason to fear their search otherwise.
Elizabeth, you said
ReplyDelete"I think beginning the book with the school assembly was a great opening for this story. It seems like it's a regular high school and there doesnt seem to be anything out of the ordinary about it."
I agree with your point about Columbine being a "regular high school." Because Dave Cullen portrays Columbine initially as a close-knit community, the fact that anyone would want to commit even one murder, let alone many, seems paradoxical. In this way the introduction adds tragedy to the fact that Eric and Dylan even planned the massacre.
A quick clarification Stephen. In terms of "normal" in regards to Dylan and Eric, I meant they appeared normal on the surface. They earned good grades, they had friends, they had jobs, etc. Most of their classmates probably had no idea about the darkness that lurked underneath their surfaces, and even those who'd seen Eric's temper and Dylan's outbursts probably had no idea of what the two were truly capable of. Of course, these boys were not normal, but what's so terrifying is that they appear that way.
ReplyDeleteJason R., Very insighful comments about Sue Klebold. Your perspective as a teenager is certainly different than mine; you're certainly more aware of how unaware parents can be. I think my lack of sympathy for Sue is based on the effective appeals to pathos Cullen uses in his book. As a parent to four children, I identified with the horrors of the parents who lost children, and felt the anger they must have felt. I think the Klebolds gave their child too much freedom and were not involved enough in his life. In a way, Dylan was neglected...sure he had food, a home, clothing, etc., but he seemed to live in a home where his parents just let him do his own thing, not showing much of an interest in him.
ReplyDelete5. What strikes you about Frank DeAngelis' (Mr. D) relationship with the kids at Columbine? Do you believe that there would have been a different outcome if he hadn't been principal?
ReplyDeleteMr. D's relationship with the students is that of a protector. I agree with Jazmine when she says that the events would have happened no matter what because the fates of all of the students was sealed by the time Dylan and Eric arrived at the school. His best efforts could not have prevented the events, no matter what he did.
10. What rhetorical strategies did you find most effective in Part I?
ReplyDeleteI personally found Cullen's use appeals to pathos and ethos most effective. Based on that fact that the murders are not introduced until the exposition and background information is set, the appeals become more clear. When the boys unleash on their school, they go against all that has been presented as within the realm of possibility. The shock and horror associated with the events is more intense when you realize the feelings of all involved and the mayhem. Both appeals definitely stood out to me.
14. By the time the networks went live (at noon) there were hundreds of uniformed responders present. Given the size of the force, what do you think of the response? What do you feel they could have done differently?
ReplyDeleteBased on the initial response, the lack of action was understandable. As the events progressed, the slow response angered me in that the police men should have been better equipped to handle the situation. For a professional force, the response was horrible.
6. Cullen writes about Eric and Dylan's preparations for the prom, their work at the pizza shop and their nicknames 'Reb' and 'VoDKa.' Did it strike you how normal they seemed? Did they seem like typical teens to you? Does this make them more frightening and/or make their actions harder to understand?
ReplyDeleteI was definitely struck by how normal Dylan and Eric seemed. They seemed like absolutely normal teens to me and it scares me to know that I know people who share some of the same traits as Dylan and Eric. Because they act like normal teenagers this frightens me more than if they acted like killers, because this means that who knows who a killer could be? I find that it is harder for me to understand their actions because they are such normal teenagers. It makes me wonder how such normal people could end up being killers.
28. Why does Cullen title his chapters? What role do these titles play in the message Cullen is trying to convey?
ReplyDeleteI believe that Cullen titles his chapters to foreshadow the events that will occur in each chapter. The titles help the reader to pick out what is maybe important to pay attention to or understand in that specific chapter. These titles show that the reader has to pick out specific details in order to understand the story, just like Cullen had to do when writing and researching for this book.
24. As opposed to Robyn and Nate, Chris Morris called police right away. Given what happened to him, do you think he did the right thing? Do you think he accidentally made himself the center of the investigation, as Eric and Dylan were dead?
ReplyDeleteI think that Chris Morris definitely did the right thing. Robyn and Nate should have done the same thing as Chris and told because they would have been caught anyway, and by hiding the wrong that they have done this makes them even greater suspects. Chris did bring more attention to himself by telling, but he knew it was the right thing to do.
22. In 'The Boy In The Window' we are told the story of Patrick Ireland's survival. What struck you most about the events involved in his rescue? Were you surprised at the level of detail we were presented about this event?
ReplyDeleteThe thing that struck me most about the events of Patrick's survival is that he actually survived! He was shot in the head and still managed to live. I was surprised about the level of detail because this means that Cullen had to get all of details from Patrick himself and it is a miracle that Patrick could recall all of it.
11. After reaching the conlusion of Part I, how would you characterize Cullen's tone and purpose?
ReplyDeleteCullen's tone is relatable and informative. The reader can easily understand all situations and the feelings that each character felt. The purpose is to tell the story of Columbine in a way that is isn't confusing. He does an amazing job as the story is easy to read and to relate to.
Columbine begins with an assembly at the High School on the Friday before the attack. Considering there are several perspectives that he could have taken (beginning with the attacks or starting with events that triggered the attacks) how does this opening work for you - does it draw you into the atmosphere of the school well?
ReplyDeleteIt did because it gives you sort of an insight on how the atmosphere of the school feels and also the unity of the school and faculty. Also it makes the school appear normal and innocent, and makes the reader feel blindsighted that a horrible tragedy like this could occur at such a normal school.
5. What strikes you about Frank DeAngelis' (Mr. D) relationship with the kids at Columbine? Do you believe that there would have been a different outcome if he hadn't been principal?
ReplyDeleteWhat strikes me is how close and caring he is to all his students. Some principals think of a school as a business or a work environment and to not really involve themselves with the kids much. But Mr. D was different. And I believe that if he hadn't been principal, there could have been even more deaths because he had rescued so many.
6. Cullen writes about Eric and Dylan's preparations for the prom, their work at the pizza shop and their nicknames 'Reb' and 'VoDKa.' Did it strike you how normal they seemed? Did they seem like typical teens to you? Does this make them more frightening and/or make their actions harder to understand?
ReplyDeleteThey seemed very normal, so normal that if I had ever known them, I would've wanted to befriend them. They seemed like what someone would categorize a typical teen as. It definitely makes their actions more frightening and hard to understand. If they had been troubled or less popular, people would be able to see reasons as to why they went insane.
Khayl you said...
ReplyDeleteIt did because it gives you sort of an insight on how the atmosphere of the school feels and also the unity of the school and faculty. Also it makes the school appear normal and innocent, and makes the reader feel blindsighted that a horrible tragedy like this could occur at such a normal school.
I have to agree with you. I thinnk that Cullen does a great job with attracting the reader with using that specifiic opening. It makes the school seem absolutely normal and it comes as a mojor shock when these events with Dylan and Eric start happening.
9. In 'Two Columbines' Cullen begins to introduce his audience to people who were attacked and their families (Dave Sanders, Linda Sanders, Patrick Ireland and Cassie Bernall). How was it to be introduced to these people? Several people mentioned having to put the book down while reading. Was this one of those points for you?
ReplyDeleteIt was very hard to read on at this point. The book made it seem as if you knew these people and made the Columbine shooting seem more realistic than any other chapter. The descriptions made you feel like you'd been there with them, that you'd been friends with them and knew their lives. It was hard to read because as you became more acquainted with the victims, you began to feel horror as you realized they'd all die soon. It was definitely a point where i put the bookmark in and closed it shut.
14. By the time the networks went live (at noon) there were hundreds of uniformed responders present. Given the size of the force, what do you think of the response? What do you feel they could have done differently?
ReplyDeleteI think the response was very well, just not soon enough. I believe they shouldn't have waited so long. Once the number of uniformed responders showed up increased, they should have moved into the building sooner. Who knows how many of the victims could still be alive if they had been able to act sooner?
Shelby Dover said...
ReplyDelete11. After reaching the conlusion of Part I, how would you characterize Cullen's tone and purpose?
Cullen's tone is relatable and informative. The reader can easily understand all situations and the feelings that each character felt. The purpose is to tell the story of Columbine in a way that is isn't confusing. He does an amazing job as the story is easy to read and to relate to
I agree with you shelby. The book is really easy to read and a very quick page turner. I also think his tone adds to the story by making it easier for the reader to take it all in and be able to see another side of the massacre
Stuart you said...
ReplyDeleteBased on the initial response, the lack of action was understandable. As the events progressed, the slow response angered me in that the police men should have been better equipped to handle the situation. For a professional force, the response was horrible.
I agree with you and also think that the response was horrible. I just wanted somebody capable to help the situation out after a while. I recall Cullen saying that it took many hours for certain events to finally take place. It was extremely frustrating.
Jordanna said...
ReplyDelete8. How does Cullen's portrayal of Eric and Dylan compare to Truman Capote's portrayal of Dick and Perry from In Cold Blood?
Cullen's portrayal of Eric and Dylan are compared to Dick and Perry from In Cold Blood in the fact that it is really evident that Eric is the leader, just like Dick was in In Cold Blood. The fact that Dylan also didn't shoot shows that he was a bit of a sentimental guy, just like Perry was. Eric, on the other hand, seems like he likes to do evil and that is proved when he shoots many bullents and Dylan barely shoots any. Just like Eric, Dick also did the most "evil" thinking in In Cold Blood.
I agree with what you said and i just wanted to add that they similarities between these four different murders is very chilling. But one difference I think is I don't feel any sympathy for Dylan like I did for Perry. Dylan did seem to be a bit of a sad kid but he doesn't give me that same sorrowful feeling I got when I read about Perry. But anyhow, i agree with you.
Jasmine said...
ReplyDelete1. Columbine begins with an assembly at the High School on the Friday before the attack. Considering there are several perspectives that he could have taken (beginning with the attacks or starting with events that triggered the attacks) how does this opening work for you - does it draw you into the atmosphere of the school well?
Using a calm and ordinary event such as the assembly gives a different feel to the story of Columbine. Most people who would read this book more than likely already have a knowledge of the tragic shooting. However, visualizing the normal atmosphere before the incident would cause the reader to feel more emotion once they reach that point in the book.
I agree with what you said but i also feel it goes deeper than that. Reading about such an average event does cause more emotion but it also causes some questioning like: "How could this happen to a place like this?".
Megan you said...
ReplyDeleteI did not read the dedication until I read this question, however I did check up on the fates of several of the characters mentioned in the book. I think Patrick Ireland was in the dedication because he had very severe injuries that were extremely life threatening that he was able to overcome. It is nice to read a story with real characters who grew up in a time period close to our own. It is nice to verify these are actual people, and it is more emotional and hard to believe because it is easy to put yourself in the situation and relate easily to the characters.
I did the same exact thing as you Megan. I also believe that Patrick was included on the list because his injuries were so bad, he should have been dead. I agree that it is east to put yourself into the situation because it was not that long ago that this happened. I find it easy to relate to the characters.
Chanan said...
ReplyDelete2. The dedication is to the thirteen people killed and to Patrick Ireland. Did you notice this? Did you find yourself checking (as I did) to see if you were reading about someone who died in the attacks as you went through the book? How did this affect your reading?
Yes, I notieced this as well. I continuously would see if one of the people I was reading about was one the book was dedicated to. This also affected my reading by realizing that these were real people, with real lives, and real stories. They had a family and then, because of those two students, they were gone. Having these names allowed me to feel closer to them and like I was personally a part of that school.
I think you make a really great point. This whole event just seems so unreal but as you see the list of names you can't help but realize just how real it actually is. I also agree with how you said it makes you feel apart of that school. Just think of how horrific it would be if a tragedy like this happened to wheeler
Jordanna you said...
ReplyDeleteYes, i felt like he did a good job portraying the picture of the the school with imagery. The fact that he described where Columbine was located made me really see where it was. No, it doesn't really seem like any schools that I have known. Therefore, it doesn't make it difficult for me to read at all.
I agree with you when you say that Cullen did a good job of describing the school but I have to disagree with you when you say that it does not relate to any other school you know. I know many schools that seem familiar to Columbine and this definitely makes it harder for me to read the book because this fact makes it more real.
Megan said...
ReplyDelete24. As opposed to Robyn and Nate, Chris Morris called police right away. Given what happened to him, do you think he did the right thing? Do you think he accidentally made himself the center of the investigation, as Eric and Dylan were dead?
Chris Morris was right to give the police all of the information he had. He took a huge risk of having himself implicated in the crime in order to do the right thing. I don't think he was made the center attention of the investigation, but he probably helped the police to better understand the killings.
-Robyn and Nate probably should have told the police as soon as they thought they could help. However, it will only make them feel more guilty about the situation because they don't tell.
i also think it was right for Chris to tell. And i agree with how you said that Robyn and Nate will only feel more guilty. I didn't even look at it that way until i read your comment. I was only mad at how they kept quiet when they knew something. But anyways i think you make a very valid point
Elizabeth you said...
ReplyDeleteIt did seem like they were just typical teens. They didn't really do anything too out of the ordinary and it didn't seem like either teen had any major problems. Because they seemed so normal, it makes it harder to think about how they could do such a thing.It's definately something you would not expect from two teens like them.
I definitely agree with you. I wrote about this question as well and I also think that it is so hard to believe that two normal teenagers such as Dylan and Eric could do sommething like they do.
Megan said...
ReplyDelete"I agree, but I also think that in the short time that it happened, they were unable to come up with a more effective solution. What I really do think could and most certainly should have been handled differently was the treatment of the victims. The parents of the victims were told that another bus was coming, and it gave the parents false hope. They should have been respected enough to have been told the complete truth. Another huge issue that was infuriating for me was the treatment of the bodies. The dead were left on the premises for days and some were outside in the elements (SNOW!!!). This was unsettling for the parents of the dead, who's emotions needed to be catered to the most in my opinion."
I think that the parents were told that there was another bus coming because they weren't positive on the individuals that died. They had a list, but didn't tell the parents just incase someone had to be added to it or taken away. I do feel bad for the parents because they had to wait to hear if their child was died or alive for what seemed to take forever and a day. I COMPLETELY agree with you when you said that the way the authorites handled the dead bodies was wrong. I can't believe they just left them out there (over night and in the snow!!)! I think it was totally disrespectful to the victims and to the parents.
20. What is the 'First Assumption'? Is it that there was a terrorist attack? That there were hostages? Or that it was a large conspiracy? Or does this refer to the assumptions of the news media? In retrospect do these assumptions make sense (i.e., can you understand why there was this confusion)?
ReplyDeleteThe “First Assumption,” or at least the most prominent one, appears to be that there were hostages. The Jeffco police thought that “humans at gunpoint equaled hostages” (70), but, in the case of a hostage standoff, the killers must keep the hostages alive in order to achieve their goals. Hostage takers, according to the manual, “act rationally. Nonhostage gunmen do not” (70). So the belief that there were hostages stemmed from the idea that Eric and Dylan were acting rationally, that they had some motive that they wanted to achieve. This assumption makes sense because it is difficult for normal people, all of us without criminal minds, to comprehend that a pair of student murderers would simply kill without any rationale or motive to commit the crimes.
Khayl said...
ReplyDeleteI think the response was very well, just not soon enough. I believe they shouldn't have waited so long. Once the number of uniformed responders showed up increased, they should have moved into the building sooner. Who knows how many of the victims could still be alive if they had been able to act sooner?
I definately agree with you. If they had taken action sooner more people might have lived, but I do think that the response was pretty good.
Shelby said..
ReplyDeleteCullen's tone is relatable and informative. The reader can easily understand all situations and the feelings that each character felt. The purpose is to tell the story of Columbine in a way that is isn't confusing. He does an amazing job as the story is easy to read and to relate to.
I agree with you. The reader can definately get a feel of what the characters felt which makes it easier to understand what the characters are like. I think the purpose is to inform people about Columbine and help them understand it better.
3. There are two epigraphs in the book - one from Hemingway and one from Dostoyevsky. What do you think Cullen is trying to say by including these?
ReplyDeleteCullen's reference to Hemingway and Dostoyevsky makes Dylan and Eric's actions seem more like they have a reason. Their purposeful (attempt at) matching dates (April 19) with these past crimes shows that Cullen is relating the boys to the best, among those that go down in history for their crimes.
5. What strikes you about Frank DeAngelis' (Mr. D) relationship with the kids at Columbine? Do you believe that there would have been a different outcome if he hadn't been principal?
ReplyDeleteMr. D is incredibly involved with the kids at Columbine. His affectionate relationship with the student body is exceptional. This is obvious by his peculiar, but frequent expression to the students, “I love you.” If there was another principal at hand during the situation, the outcome may have differed. During the incident, Mr. D led many kids to safety. Obviously, they had their devout trust in him. One student, the winsome freshman, claimed she never feared for her life because the principal was with her. This relationship aided in the survival of many students.
5. What strikes you about Frank DeAngelis' (Mr. D) relationship with the kids at Columbine? Do you believe that there would have been a different outcome if he hadn't been principal?
ReplyDeleteIf Mr. D were not the principal at Columbine at the time, the outcome would definitely have differed. On page 60 one of the students commented that she did not fear for her life "because the principle was with [her]." The father-like role that he played at the school allowed for the students to trust him and follow him to their safety, rahter than remaining trapped in the cafeteria.
2. The dedication is to the thirteen people killed and to Patrick Ireland. Did you notice this? Did you find yourself checking (as I did) to see if you were reading about someone who died in the attacks as you went through the book? How did this affect your reading?
ReplyDeleteI did notice the dedication at the begginging of the book and throughout the book I did look at the dedication to see if the character I was reading about was one of the victims. Whenever I saw that the character I was reading about was a victim, it really made me think about how sad this situation was. Its hard to read about someone's life and then see that their life is about to end.
Lucas said...
ReplyDeleteMr. D is incredibly involved with the kids at Columbine. His affectionate relationship with the student body is exceptional. This is obvious by his peculiar, but frequent expression to the students, “I love you.” If there was another principal at hand during the situation, the outcome may have differed. During the incident, Mr. D led many kids to safety. Obviously, they had their devout trust in him. One student, the winsome freshman, claimed she never feared for her life because the principal was with her. This relationship aided in the survival of many students.
I share your views, this is almost exactly the same as my thoughts. Mr. D definitely helped saved lives of his students because of their strong bond of trust.
6. Cullen writes about Eric and Dylan's preparations for the prom, their work at the pizza shop and their nicknames 'Reb' and 'VoDKa.' Did it strike you how normal they seemed? Did they seem like typical teens to you? Does this make them more frightening and/or make their actions harder to understand?
ReplyDeleteGiving themselves nicknames that were so b.a. made them seem like cool kids, rather than outcasts. It's way easier to imagine the murderers and social outcasts that had some serious issues, so it makes them much more frightening and difficult to understand. It doesn't seem like they had any reason to act out in such a way, which is partially more scary than their crime itself.
James Kraus
ReplyDelete4. Did the Author's Note on the sources give you information that was useful in your reading of the book? For example - did it help to know that no dialogue was made up in the book? Do you feel that notes of this sort give you more confidence in reading a non-fiction work?
The knowledge that no dialogue was made up in the book gives it some sense of authority which would not be present otherwise. In books like Zippy and The Glass Castle, we are perfectly aware the author has fabricated most of the dialogue and it was acceptable because it represented their views of their memories of experiences. In events such as Columbine, which is still a very sensitive issue to this day, fabrication of information, in this case dialogue, could discredit the entire book. It is therefore very important to assure readers that all information given to them can be backed up by evidence or strong testimonies from witnesses. As for the advantage factual correctness in writing rather than fabrication, it allows me to understand the killers as they were with less bias by the author influencing my own conclusions.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete7. Beginning with a section on page 10 ('Rebel Hill slopes gradually....') and at the beginning of the chapter 'Springtime' Cullen develops vivid descriptions of the school setting and the student body. Did you feel that this gave you an adequate picture of the school environment? Does it seem similar to secondary schools that you have known? If yes, does this make the book more difficult for you to read?
ReplyDeleteYes, Cullen provides a sufficient picture for the environmnet as a school full of spirit and school pride. It does not seem to differ very much from local high schools actually, and it fits the generic "high school" idea across the states. This similarity makes it hard not to imagine a similar event occuring at our school; the personal relativity makes it MUCH harder to read.
7. Beginning with a section on page 10 ('Rebel Hill slopes gradually....') and at the beginning of the chapter 'Springtime' Cullen develops vivid descriptions of the school setting and the student body. Did you feel that this gave you an adequate picture of the school environment? Does it seem similar to secondary schools that you have known? If yes, does this make the book more difficult for you to read?
ReplyDeleteI think that Cullen does a very good job describing the school through his descriptions and imagery. It doesn't really seem similar to any school I know of, so it doesn't make this story any more difficult to read.
29. Cullen is telling a story for which we already know the outcome. How does he make the story compelling?
ReplyDeleteCullen makes the story compelling by adding suspense to the novel. Similarly to Capote’s style in “In Cold Blood”, he states the outcome before going into the details. We the readers hunger for the “why”. Why do Eric and Dylan commit the massacre? The reader has likely seen news reports on the event, but news reports can only offer facts and speculation. The documentary gives the reader an insight into the minds of the killers and victims. It portrays the victims, and shows their last thoughts. The reader feels more connected to the events, and there is still the lingering question of “why” that keeps their noses in the book.
24. As opposed to Robyn and Nate, Chris Morris called police right away. Given what happened to him, do you think he did the right thing? Do you think he accidentally made himself the center of the investigation, as Eric and Dylan were dead?
ReplyDeleteChris couldn’t have known the repercussions of admitting association with the two. He was a victim of the logical fallacy “guilt by association”, and just by knowing the two killers he was considered a main target in the investigation. He is also a scapegoat for the media and victims. Because Eric and Dylan are dead at this point, the full brunt of the investigative scrutiny falls on him. They automatically assume that there are more than two killers due to the miscommunication involved in the crisis. The authorities are looking for a group of people, and Chris has the misfortune of putting himself in the center of it. However, he might have been in more hot water if he had denied any association with the two and then was later investigated.
5. What strikes you about Frank DeAngelis' (Mr. D) relationship with the kids at Columbine? Do you believe that there would have been a different outcome if he hadn't been principal?
ReplyDeleteI personally don’t know what Mr. D could have done to be a better principal. He cared personally for every student in his school and he couldn’t have possibly (that we know of at this point) done anything else to better care for his students. He did manage to rescue a group of students. If he hadn’t been principal the situation could have been a whole lot worse.
6. Cullen writes about Eric and Dylan's preparations for the prom, their work at the pizza shop and their nicknames 'Reb' and 'VoDKa.' Did it strike you how normal they seemed? Did they seem like typical teens to you? Does this make them more frightening and/or make their actions harder to understand?
ReplyDeleteThe two teens appear very normal. They don’t meet the stereotype of the “school shooter”. I know a lot of “Dylan”s and “Eric”s. It’s frightening to think that we could be attending school with a bunch of psychopaths. I think this is what made the actual incident so much more impactful on society- how do you combat something you can’t even predict. If a kid has anger management problems you give them therapy and classes; the same goes for most teenage “infirmities”, but Eric was a model student, and Dylan had a bright future to look forward to. Columbine blindsided America and forced many people to give up their stereotypes of the “school shooter”. I think that this event really contributed to the American culture of fear because everyone feels like they have to look over their shoulder, never knowing if their school would be next.
Stephan said…
ReplyDelete“To me, it seems natural that the panic during a school shooting would cause a lot of people to make phone calls – to family, to 911, to newscasters, etc. It’s logical that, if enough panic ensues and enough people use their cell phones at once, the calls would overwhelm the operators. Calls from inside the school, especially from wounded or traumatized students and those who knew the killers, should have been the ideal source for information about the Columbine massacre. There was so much confusion that, at first, no one had any answers, so, in order to keep the news going, the media used all of the calls, even the contradictory ones. The fact that the calls were inconsistent shows that extreme fear caused those at Columbine to “imagine missing details without realizing they’re doing it” (53). However, I believe that such sources should be used, especially in this case of extreme danger, since any news about the crime, even if it is slightly inaccurate in the beginning, still warns others (parents of the students at Columbine, for example) about the murders so that they have some indication of what is going on.”
I personally disagree with this. It might just be my natural cynicism talking, but I don’t think that the media was in it to help the kids. The media’s job is to sell news, and they wanted the great coverage they would get from inside sources. Inaccurate news can actually do more harm than good. After all, if the police had gotten just one call- saying that there were shooters, they would have gone into the school hours before they did. Because the massive influx of inaccurate information caused the police to believe a small army was in the school, they spent hours letting people bleed to death, just sitting outside the school. In this case, the massive spread of inaccurate information just made the situation worse, and spread fear in the school and outside.
Megan said…
ReplyDelete“Up until the actual time of the killings, Eric and Dylan went about their normal business. This is scary because there were no apparent warning signs. They seemed like the average teenager with friends and relationships. It's terrifying that they were unable to keep up such a convincing facade. It's much easier to picture them as outcasts who were obviously disturbed, strange people that no one associates with because they emanate danger and unease. It calms people down because it's easily indicated as a threat and something that can be prevented.”
I agree with this. It’s more comforting to picture them as crazy because then there is a clear understanding of why they did it. They did it because they were crazy, or because they were mad at the world, or some other clearly definable reason. Because of their normalicy, however, we can’t understand why they would have done it, and we can’t find an obvious behavior to tag as a “warning sign” to prevent other similar tragedies. We are uncomfortable in thinking that “normal” people would be capable of such violence.
Jordanna said…
ReplyDelete“Cullen's portrayal of Eric and Dylan are compared to Dick and Perry from In Cold Blood in the fact that it is really evident that Eric is the leader, just like Dick was in In Cold Blood. The fact that Dylan also didn't shoot shows that he was a bit of a sentimental guy, just like Perry was. Eric, on the other hand, seems like he likes to do evil and that is proved when he shoots many bullents and Dylan barely shoots any. Just like Eric, Dick also did the most "evil" thinking in In Cold Blood.”
I agree with this for the most part, but one interesting thing I noticed was that while Dick certainly was the mastermind, he himself didn’t have the nerve to actually commit murder. Certain aspects about the two pairs are switched. For example, Perry was very kind and didn’t want to hurt anyone, but he was the psychopath, he felt no emotions towards his crimes. In this case Eric is bad through and through: He is not only the mastermind but also derives a cruel, psychopathic pleasure from the murders.
29. Cullen is telling a story for which we already know the outcome. How does he make the story compelling?
ReplyDeleteAlthough the general facts of the Columbine massacre are widely known and the reader is already aware of the outcome, Cullen continually plummets the reader's mind with new information, with exciting and unexpected facts and details. His methodic presentation of these facts keeps the reader turning the page, and his allusions to an insider-look later in the novel (mentioning "basement videos" that were withheld from the puclic for a long time) add excitement and make Columbine compelling.
Jason Rodencal said...
ReplyDeleteThe two teens appear very normal. They don’t meet the stereotype of the “school shooter”. I know a lot of “Dylan”s and “Eric”s. It’s frightening to think that we could be attending school with a bunch of psychopaths. I think this is what made the actual incident so much more impactful on society- how do you combat something you can’t even predict. If a kid has anger management problems you give them therapy and classes; the same goes for most teenage “infirmities”, but Eric was a model student, and Dylan had a bright future to look forward to. Columbine blindsided America and forced many people to give up their stereotypes of the “school shooter”. I think that this event really contributed to the American culture of fear because everyone feels like they have to look over their shoulder, never knowing if their school would be next.
This opinion is certainly one I support. You're right, if normal kids who aren't even outcasts can commit such crimes, what other murderers could be lurking among us? it instills some panic in society, and yes, that's why it made such a large impact.
sammie k. said...
ReplyDelete"Yes, Cullen provides a sufficient picture for the environmnet as a school full of spirit and school pride. It does not seem to differ very much from local high schools actually, and it fits the generic "high school" idea across the states. This similarity makes it hard not to imagine a similar event occurring at our school; the personal relativity makes it MUCH harder to read."
I like this analysis because it fits the main conclusion that we've all come to- that the whole town, the people, and the school was dreadfully normal. The students weren't too rich or too poor, weren't too enthusiastic nor all that "rebellious" (pun on their mascot being rebels). While the school appears more affluent than most, overall the characterization of the high school fits the bill: it makes "normal" into a four letter word.
As you said, this adds to the fear we feel from the event- if it could happen in Columbine it could happen anywhere. I like that the author manages to develop the story in such a way that gets this message across clearly. Cullen manages to explain America's fear very well.
5. What strikes you about Frank DeAngelis' (Mr. D) relationship with the kids at Columbine? Do you believe that there would have been a different outcome if he hadn't been principal?
ReplyDelete- i think he was a great principal who loved the kids, he really cared. For example one of the first times we meet him he is giving a speech about how he wanted to see all of his students alive after prom, about making good decisions. He would be torn if even one student didnt come back from the night, that monday after prom, eveyone came to school.
However i do not believe that there would have been a different outcome if he hadn't been principal. This hateful act was planned and carried out regardless how much the principal loved them. They were still messed up. Even with the most caring principal in the world this act still occurred and students were slaaughter. This would have happened regardless of principal how much the principal loved them.
Elizabeth said...
ReplyDeleteI think that Cullen does a very good job describing the school through his descriptions and imagery. It doesn't really seem similar to any school I know of, so it doesn't make this story any more difficult to read.
While I support you that our particular school at least is not identical to that described by Cullen in Columbine, I think the one he does describe is pretty generic. Rather than having no effect on the difficulty of reading the story, it personally makes if harder for me - it is a school that you or I could potentially be attending. A "safe" school where people are sprited and happy.
This isn't an "official" comment, but I figure that this is as good a place as any to post it. Mrs. Wheatley, we talked a little bit about our opinions about Sue's parenting. You said that you sympathize more with the parents of the victims, and that you feel that she could have been more involved in Dylan's life. While I have more sympathy for the victims' parents than Sue, you pretty much credited my point in that statement.
ReplyDeleteHow many crappy parents are there in America? Of those, how many are truly awful- abusive, negligent, etc? And yet, they don't have the entire world on their backs, the entire country of America judging them specifically for their misdeeds. The fact that we're sitting in a classroom (or an blog- even worse) and discussing how good or bad of a parent Sue is pretty much defines my point. You, who has never met Sue, and no nothing more about her that what you've seen on the news and read as a book already have an opinion on her character, her parenting, and probably place a portion of the blame on her. And you're a well educated, fair-minded person. Much of America isn't. Are you right? Quite possibly. Maybe Sue is a really terrible parent. I haven't finished the book yet and so I reserve the right to lose sympathy for her and make a new opinion, but right now I feel like the fact that millions of people- who have seen nothing more of her than her face on TV- hate her is enough to give me some sympathy for her.
11. After reaching the conlusion of Part I, how would you characterize Cullen's tone and purpose?
ReplyDelete- tone is: tough-minded compassion
purpose: to show a true account of the massacre, reveal things that have not been understood before about the killings ex. the killers were actually not low-lifes, they had friends and got A's
Stephen said...
ReplyDeleteThe “First Assumption,” or at least the most prominent one, appears to be that there were hostages. The Jeffco police thought that “humans at gunpoint equaled hostages” (70), but, in the case of a hostage standoff, the killers must keep the hostages alive in order to achieve their goals. Hostage takers, according to the manual, “act rationally. Nonhostage gunmen do not” (70). So the belief that there were hostages stemmed from the idea that Eric and Dylan were acting rationally, that they had some motive that they wanted to achieve. This assumption makes sense because it is difficult for normal people, all of us without criminal minds, to comprehend that a pair of student murderers would simply kill without any rationale or motive to commit the crimes.
I also think that yes, jumping to the conclusion that hostages were taken is completely understandable. There would be no reason for the general public to understand what was really going on, and this was an entirely sensible assumption.
6. Cullen writes about Eric and Dylan's preparations for the prom, their work at the pizza shop and their nicknames 'Reb' and 'VoDKa.' Did it strike you how normal they seemed? Did they seem like typical teens to you? Does this make them more frightening and/or make their actions harder to understand?
ReplyDeleteAccording to Cullen’s description, Eric and Dylan seemed to be ordinary teenagers. In fact, I shared several characteristics with the two brainy and nervous before public events, such as prom. Their normal behavior gave no suspicion to the acts they would commit. This makes their actions more frightening and harder to understand because there is no sign of madness in either of the two. Although some peculiarities were noticed, they were not significant enough to consider anything drastic.
James Kraus
ReplyDeleteKhayl said...
14. By the time the networks went live (at noon) there were hundreds of uniformed responders present. Given the size of the force, what do you think of the response? What do you feel they could have done differently?
I think the response was very well, just not soon enough. I believe they shouldn't have waited so long. Once the number of uniformed responders showed up increased, they should have moved into the building sooner. Who knows how many of the victims could still be alive if they had been able to act sooner?
Khayl, I disagree with you. While I understand the point you are making and in this case some innocent lives could have been saved if they had just swarmed the building, given the of the attackers it could possibly have led to more deaths. Storming the building with policemen and attempting to take down the gunmen could have posed a great risk to the police themselves. Cullen writes in chapter 15 that when dealing with nonhostage gunmen, it is important to keep emotions low and to tr not to stress the attackers lest they become more violent. By staying outside the building and not posing an immediate threat to the attackers, Eric and Dylan would be more likely to think about their impossible situation and consider both surrender and suicide rather than fighting the police.
Khayl said...
ReplyDeleteIt was very hard to read on at this point. The book made it seem as if you knew these people and made the Columbine shooting seem more realistic than any other chapter. The descriptions made you feel like you'd been there with them, that you'd been friends with them and knew their lives. It was hard to read because as you became more acquainted with the victims, you began to feel horror as you realized they'd all die soon. It was definitely a point where i put the bookmark in and closed it shut.
Khayl I agree with what you say about feeling as if you know the people and their lives. While it did not affect me to the point of putting the book down, it kept me turning pages. Cullen effectively makes the families seem like people you know, which does make the whole experience much more personal and touching.
8. How does Cullen's portrayal of Eric and Dylan compare to Truman Capote's portrayal of Dick and Perry from In Cold Blood?
ReplyDelete- Eric and Dylan were they same as Dick and perry in they were not the same on the inside as the outside, both had the capacity to plan killings of human beings and go bowling before the act like a normal day. Dick and perry acted the same way.
12. In 'Judgment' and 'Female Down' we are given a rundown of the events on April 20th, the day of the attack on Columbine High School. Were there any things that stood out particularly about they events as they unfold? Do you think that if Deputy Gardiner had been in the lunch room that things would have turned out differently? Were you surprised at the demeanor of Eric and Dylan? What was your opinion of the reactions of the adults in charge in the school - would you have done anything differently?
ReplyDelete- if deputy Gardner was in the cafeteria the events would not be the same. I was surprised by the demeanor of them, they were laughing and yelling like this was a game or something. The adults reacted the best way they could, there was almost no way to prevent this since it was so out of the ordinary and strangely berserk.
15. Cullen begins writing about the parents responses in '1 Bleeding to Death.' Are there any particular responses that stood out to you?
ReplyDelete- not exactly the parents had no real options except to sit and wait hoping their children would show up in the elementary school or some other place.
Elizabeth said...
ReplyDeleteI think that Cullen does a very good job describing the school through his descriptions and imagery. It doesn't really seem similar to any school I know of, so it doesn't make this story any more difficult to read.
- i agree with you since the layout of the school is critical to us understanding how this all unfolded.
Khayl said...
ReplyDeleteI think the response was very well, just not soon enough. I believe they shouldn't have waited so long. Once the number of uniformed responders showed up increased, they should have moved into the building sooner. Who knows how many of the victims could still be alive if they had been able to act sooner?
- i agree with you in that they took extremely too long, responders got to some victims, an hour, hour 45 minutes after the initial shooting, that is way too long.
Chanan said...
ReplyDeleteThis also happens in In Cold Blood. We already know who the killers are. Although we already know the outcome, we don't know what went on "behind the scenes." Cullen allows us to get into the student body and understand the thought process of the killers.
- i agree with you completely, we know the story we just dont know the back story, how exactly it happened. that is fascinating to see how much the media left out to the public and what truths they did not tell to the public.
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ReplyDelete11. After reaching the conclusion of Part I, how would you characterize Cullen's tone and purpose?
ReplyDeleteThroughout part 1, Cullen’s tone is varied. However, overall it is very compassionate. He is very empathetic toward those involved in the Columbine shooting. His strong interest in the ordeal is evident by the way he vividly describes every little aspect in great detail. Following the conclusion of Part 1, Dave Cullen’s purpose seems to be to accurately cover the incident and from various aspects of the people that are involved.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete1. Columbine begins with an assembly at the High School on the Friday before the attack. Considering there are several perspectives that he could have taken (beginning with the attacks or starting with events that triggered the attacks) how does this opening work for you - does it draw you into the atmosphere of the school well?
ReplyDeleteIn starting the book with such a normal gathering of students, Cullen makes Columbine seem like the average school. No outrageous violent acts seem imminent at this point in the book. Being a high school student myself, it is very easy to identify with such a situation, having been to many boring assemblies since Day One.
ELizabeth said...
ReplyDeleteIt did seem like they were just typical teens. They didn't really do anything too out of the ordinary and it didn't seem like either teen had any major problems. Because they seemed so normal, it makes it harder to think about how they could do such a thing.It's definately something you would not expect from two teens like them.
- i agree with you they were so normal which made it more twisted and weird that they could do something like this.
6. Cullen writes about Eric and Dylan's preparations for the prom, their work at the pizza shop and their nicknames 'Reb' and 'VoDKa.' Did it strike you how normal they seemed? Did they seem like typical teens to you? Does this make them more frightening and/or make their actions harder to understand?
ReplyDeleteEric and Dylan do not at all seem threatening or psychotic here. Any normal teenager would do what they do on a daily basis, certainly bringing into question their motivation for such violence. The fact that they are indeed so "normal" makes their actions seem very strange; however, if they had been abandoned as infants and raised satanists (ya know, the usual crazy people habits), the two would have been more likely candidates for a school shooting.
James Kraus
ReplyDelete7. Beginning with a section on page 10 ('Rebel Hill slopes gradually....') and at the beginning of the chapter 'Springtime' Cullen develops vivid descriptions of the school setting and the student body. Did you feel that this gave you an adequate picture of the school environment? Does it seem similar to secondary schools that you have known? If yes, does this make the book more difficult for you to read?
Cullen paints a portait, so realistic, so near my own experiences in high school, I feel like I am looking through a reflective glass, which not only allows me to see through to the environment of Columbine high school, but also makes me reflect my own high school's similarities at the same time. This does not make the book difficult to read, rather it also provokes me to push forward to further my understanding of these events and the reasons behind them. I'm like a cat, entranced by the prospect of understanding the error which occurred at Columbine, only being able to dislodge myself once I can fully comprehend the events.
Stuart said...
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, the heartfelt closing to the principal's speech was very easy to relate to in that most our very principal says the same before our prom. The fact that the opening included an emotional section allowed me to feel like Columbine High School was a close knit community that would love and protect one another. The opening foreshadows a tragic event and presents an ironic twist to set the tone for an eventful weekend and week.
- i agree with you, chiprany and this principal seem like the same kind of person, someone who actually cares for their students. It is ironic this speech is given 4 days before the massacre, 4 days after the principal says i hope to see all of you alive next week, 12 end up dead.
10. What rhetorical strategies did you find most effective in Part I?
ReplyDeleteI found Part I, in itself, to be one large paradox. The fact that Eric and Dylan seem so normal and change so drastically into murderers is beyond not only me, but most readers (and news teams). While a text-book paradox is not utilized in Part I, it is obvious that Cullen wanted this section to seem contradictory to itself.
James Kraus Here!
ReplyDeleteClay said...
"6. Cullen writes about Eric and Dylan's preparations for the prom, their work at the pizza shop and their nicknames 'Reb' and 'VoDKa.' Did it strike you how normal they seemed? Did they seem like typical teens to you? Does this make them more frightening and/or make their actions harder to understand?
Eric and Dylan do not at all seem threatening or psychotic here. Any normal teenager would do what they do on a daily basis, certainly bringing into question their motivation for such violence. The fact that they are indeed so "normal" makes their actions seem very strange; however, if they had been abandoned as infants and raised satanists (ya know, the usual crazy people habits), the two would have been more likely candidates for a school shooting."
I think that you definitely make a good point, that the duo don't seem like likely candidates for the shooting and their environment definitely is an odd one to create such behavior. While abandoned satanists babies would indeed have a hard life (and possibly interesting based on Jeannette Wall's hard life!) I believe that such an image would only allow for distanced readers to excuse their actions as being directly related to that aspect of their life without actually defining why that might be the case.
13. What was your reaction to the problems created with cellphones overwhelming the operators? Do you think this would be worse now? How do you think this affected the reporting? Did the '24 hour news cycle' come into play here - that is, were the news agencies running with any information they could get - including cellphone calls from inside the school? Should the news shows have carried live telephone calls from the students? Why or why not? Do you think that this sort of coverage should depend on the news item being covered (i.e., if it does not put people in danger, should these sources be used)?
ReplyDeleteThe first thing most frightened people do is pull out their phones and call relatives, police stations, and news teams. Columbine was no different. The people inside were frightened and wanted help. The people they called for help called others, and eventually word got to the news teams. The media will certainly take anything they can on an event, not only to communicate the story to others, but to have more eyes on their channel than their competitors. This hurry to report distorted the story heavily. Even today, small stories are blown up by news stations: in the reporters' lack of knowledge on the happening, they take any information they can get, whether it be false or not. Fear is the key to commercial success.
8. How does Cullen's portrayal of Eric and Dylan compare to Truman Capote's portrayal of Dick and Perry from In Cold Blood?
ReplyDeleteIn the novel In Cold Blood, Truman Capote portrays a certain relationship between Dick and Perry. In the relationship Perry is the leader, and Dick the follower. Cullen also shows this relationship between Eric and Dylan, in which Eric is the leader and Dylan the follower. Both couples engage in harsh acts, where the leader is solely or, in Columbine’s case, mostly responsible for the deaths. Perry and Eric ultimately show bitter attitudes and traces of psychopathic personalities. However, their accomplices come off as more gentle and rational.
20. What is the 'First Assumption'? Is it that there was a terrorist attack? That there were hostages? Or that it was a large conspiracy? Or does this refer to the assumptions of the news media? In retrospect do these assumptions make sense (i.e., can you understand why there was this confusion)?
ReplyDeleteCullen definitely used 'First Assumption' as a reference to how the media reacted. When something goes wrong in a peaceful community, society finds someone to blame. Here, Americans found it easy to assume Eric and Dylan were raised abusively and lived in poverty. The media took comfort in believing Eric and Dylan had a history of being troublesome and violent. It was difficult for society to accept that these two boys were completely "normal" before this massacre. It just wouldn't make sense for two sane young men to kill 13 people, now would it?
James Kraus
ReplyDelete17. Cullen writes about the reactions of Robyn Anderson and Nate Dykeman after the attack started. What did you think of their reactions? Should they have given the police information? Or were they just as scared and shocked as everyone else?
While I believe Nate did the correct thing by speaking out about his beliefs from the start, I can easily sympathize with Robyn. It would be scarring to see a new psychopathic side to him, and more importantly to have furnished him with the means to kill the students, I can only imagine the horror surging through her. She was definitely more affected than anyone else because she knew the shooter very personally and had unknowingly helped him. Perhaps Nate did not have such a retraction reaction because he did not have to deal with having assisted the gunmen.
James Kraus Here!
ReplyDeleteClay said...
10. What rhetorical strategies did you find most effective in Part I?
I found Part I, in itself, to be one large paradox. The fact that Eric and Dylan seem so normal and change so drastically into murderers is beyond not only me, but most readers (and news teams). While a text-book paradox is not utilized in Part I, it is obvious that Cullen wanted this section to seem contradictory to itself.
I definitely understand the contradictory feeling you get about chapter 1. The way the portions of the chapter connect also want to make me say it is similar to non sequitur in that the two parts link together, but there is no logical step from normal high school to teenage killers.
James Kraus Here!
ReplyDelete22. In 'The Boy In The Window' we are told the story of Patrick Ireland's survival. What struck you most about the events involved in his rescue? Were you surprised at the level of detail we were presented about this event?
The thing that struck me the most about Patrick Ireland's survival is the struggle after his rescue to escape even after he was out of the building. This just displays the basic human survival instinct which was awakened on the day of the shooting which in my opinion is appalling to have occurred in our country. I'm not particularly surprised by the level of detail presented. Cullen was able to review days worth of footage for the relatively few minutes of action allowing him to present a high level of detail.
4. Did the Author's Note on the sources give you information that was useful in your reading of the book? For example - did it help to know that no dialogue was made up in the book? Do you feel that notes of this sort give you more confidence in reading a non-fiction work?
ReplyDeleteIncluding the sources in the story did give more proof and backup to knowing that the novel was not fabricated. It give a sense of reassurance that the novel is a non-fiction, however, I would not have doubted the truth of the story since I already know what occured.
James Kraus
ReplyDelete29. Cullen is telling a story for which we already know the outcome. How does he make the story compelling?
Cullen turns this horrific story of a school shooting and transforms it into a tragedy complete with characterization and back story. He effectively conveys that the killers had not simply "snapped" but rather they had decided and planned out the systematic extermination of their peers. While a simple mental breakdown might have been excusable, Cullen's version of events is much more provoking to the reader.
11. After reaching the conclusion of Part I, how would you characterize Cullen's tone and purpose?
ReplyDeleteCullen uses an overall empathetic tone. He successfully relates and covers in detail the students, Eric and Dylan, and the families. His purpose would have to be to prove to his audience how such Columbine High had just as much of an ordinary atmosphere as any other high school yet such a tragedy still took place. Since he offers the perspectives of multiple students, it gives the audience a well-planted idea of how the tragedy affected those that it did.
James Kraus
ReplyDeleteJasmine said...
"4. Did the Author's Note on the sources give you information that was useful in your reading of the book? For example - did it help to know that no dialogue was made up in the book? Do you feel that notes of this sort give you more confidence in reading a non-fiction work?
Including the sources in the story did give more proof and backup to knowing that the novel was not fabricated. It give a sense of reassurance that the novel is a non-fiction, however, I would not have doubted the truth of the story since I already know what occured."
I agree with what you are saying regarding the note on source's impact on he credibility of the book, but I don't think the note on source's purpose stops at informing the reader that it is nonficiton, but also establishes that the author has not tampered with or fabricated small details which might change the way the reader perceives the events at Columbine.
5. What strikes you about Frank DeAngelis' (Mr. D) relationship with the kids at Columbine? Do you believe that there would have been a different outcome if he hadn't been principal?
ReplyDeleteHow close and concerned Mr. D was with the students of Columbine gives him the appearance of, more than likely, the right principal to help handle such a situation. Depending on if (by some random, fantasy chance) the principal would have been someone like Superman, the situation could have been handled with probably no casualties. However, this is the real world and a real story, and having Mr. D as the principal helped keep as many students safe as possible.
James Kraus Here!
ReplyDelete"Stuart said...
5. What strikes you about Frank DeAngelis' (Mr. D) relationship with the kids at Columbine? Do you believe that there would have been a different outcome if he hadn't been principal?
Mr. D's relationship with the students is that of a protector. I agree with Jazmine when she says that the events would have happened no matter what because the fates of all of the students was sealed by the time Dylan and Eric arrived at the school. His best efforts could not have prevented the events, no matter what he did."
Mr. D functioned as an excellent protector during the attack. I know for a fact some people would have simply ran to save their own life rather than try to alert and evacuate others, but Mr. D did the selfless thing and helped his students escape. It's not so much a matter of prevention of such a problem, as their is almost no way to do so simply as a principal, but his actions during the event are what made him a hero of Columbine.
25. Sue Klebold said that she felt as if they had been hit by a hurricane - and a lawyer told her that people were going to hate her. How do you feel towards her at this point in the book? Do you empathize with her - or do you have conflicted feelings?
ReplyDeleteI have mixed feelings for Sue Klebold. I feel sorry that she has to suffer from her child’s grievous acts, yet alone his death. On the other hand, who else is there to blame besides the parents of a teenage murderer? Yes, Dylan is eighteen years old and definitely mindful of his actions. However, he lives in his parents’ home and is primarily influenced by them. As a parent, it is Mrs. Klebold’s obligation to stay up-to-date in her child’s life and be constantly involved. They were shocked by Dylan’s involvement in the ordeal, showing that they were somewhat involved and concerned. Still, the parents were not involved enough. Perhaps if they were more frequently notified of their son’s whereabouts, this grave incident would have never occurred. Regardless of their involvement and interest in Dylan’s life, the public’s hatred and negative views toward the Klebolds are inevitable.
Jordanna said...
ReplyDelete“Cullen's portrayal of Eric and Dylan are compared to Dick and Perry from In Cold Blood in the fact that it is really evident that Eric is the leader, just like Dick was in In Cold Blood. The fact that Dylan also didn't shoot shows that he was a bit of a sentimental guy, just like Perry was. Eric, on the other hand, seems like he likes to do evil and that is proved when he shoots many bullents and Dylan barely shoots any. Just like Eric, Dick also did the most "evil" thinking in In Cold Blood.”
- I agree with this similarity in the relationship between the characters from In Cold Blood and Columbine. The role of each character in a leader-follower relationship is obvious. The only difference that lies in Cullen’s portrayal is that he does not feel any specific sympathy for either character. In In Cold Blood, Capote appealed to the audience’s pathos by depicting Dick’s inferiority to Perry, urging them to feel the same sympathy as he did for Dick. However, Cullen only portrays this relationship to describe the event more accurately.
Clay said...
ReplyDeleteCullen definitely used 'First Assumption' as a reference to how the media reacted. When something goes wrong in a peaceful community, society finds someone to blame. Here, Americans found it easy to assume Eric and Dylan were raised abusively and lived in poverty. The media took comfort in believing Eric and Dylan had a history of being troublesome and violent. It was difficult for society to accept that these two boys were completely "normal" before this massacre. It just wouldn't make sense for two sane young men to kill 13 people, now would it?
- I agree with Clay’s argument in that the ‘First Assumption” referred to the media’s reaction. Eager to cover the news urgently, they ignored patiently waiting for the facts and made up the foolish “Trench Coat Mafia.” Instead, they created a typical situation in which the suspects came from violent pasts. Society could better comprehend a situation like this, as opposed to what really happened.
Khayl said...
ReplyDelete“What strikes me is how close and caring he is to all his students. Some principals think of a school as a business or a work environment and to not really involve themselves with the kids much. But Mr. D was different. And I believe that if he hadn't been principal, there could have been even more deaths because he had rescued so many.”
- Yes, Mr. D’s interactive relationship with the students is exceptional. Furthermore, in the midst of the chaos, the kids trust their lives with Mr. D. This shows his significant role in the survival of many students. Without trust in their compassionate principal, students may have decided to act independently, making the wrong decision, and losing their life to Eric or Dylan.
20. What is the 'First Assumption'? Is it that there was a terrorist attack? That there were hostages? Or that it was a large conspiracy? Or does this refer to the assumptions of the news media? In retrospect do these assumptions make sense (i.e., can you understand why there was this confusion)?
ReplyDeleteI think that the "first assumption" was referring to the assupmtions of the media. Since the media also brodcasts what it is that they heard or are seeing, the "first assumption" of the media would become the "first assumption" of the viewers, perhaps the world. Since this is a typically "normal" town and high school, the newly informed media would only portray Eric and Dylan as different characters than how they really were. The viewers would form their assumptions around Eric and Dylan having some sort of issues in order to "act out" as they did.
Lucus said...
ReplyDeleteI have mixed feelings for Sue Klebold. I feel sorry that she has to suffer from her child’s grievous acts, yet alone his death. On the other hand, who else is there to blame besides the parents of a teenage murderer? Yes, Dylan is eighteen years old and definitely mindful of his actions. However, he lives in his parents’ home and is primarily influenced by them. As a parent, it is Mrs. Klebold’s obligation to stay up-to-date in her child’s life and be constantly involved. They were shocked by Dylan’s involvement in the ordeal, showing that they were somewhat involved and concerned. Still, the parents were not involved enough. Perhaps if they were more frequently notified of their son’s whereabouts, this grave incident would have never occurred. Regardless of their involvement and interest in Dylan’s life, the public’s hatred and negative views toward the Klebolds are inevitable.
I can completely relate to how you feel. Since Mrs. Klebold was completely unaware of this violent nature her son was capable of having, I feel pity toward how she will have to deal with the judgement of others. However, I do not necessarily think that (although parents are a major influence) Dylan's parents were quite influential towards him taking part in the shooting. The fact that his parents did not check up on him all the time does play its part, but Dylan's surroundings (including Eric and other violent figures) would have a bigger role in his involvement in the shooting.
Megan said...
ReplyDelete“Chris Morris was right to give the police all of the information he had. He took a huge risk of having himself implicated in the crime in order to do the right thing. I don't think he was made the center attention of the investigation, but he probably helped the police to better understand the killings.
-Robyn and Nate probably should have told the police as soon as they thought they could help. However, it will only make them feel more guilty about the situation because they don't tell.”
- I agree. Not saying that I would do the same myself, but Chris Morris did the right thing by sharing everything he knew with the police. Robyn and Nate should also have notified the police as soon as they could to offer help to the case. I believe it was their devotion to those who died in the shooting to voice out any information that was relative to the shooting. However, Chris Morris, unaware that the suspects would commit suicide, did actually place himself in the center of the investigation. At the time, he was only trying to help out by being cooperative as possible.
Stuart said...
ReplyDeleteCullen tells a well-known tragedy, which some may see as defeating the purpose. On the contrary. Cullen pays attention to minute details and includes first-hand accounts to convey to the reader the importance of each moment leading up to the killings. The fact that Cullen has pieced together the events in chronological order is amazing in that he makes the reader connect to the characters, up until they unleash on their schoolmates. On the whole, Cullen's attention to detail and inclusion of important background information that ties into the killings provides an important element to a compelling storyline.
I agree with you completely. The way that Cullen chooses to narrate the story gives readers a good look at how this one incident came to be. Giving the readers a look into the characters and the right amount of background makes the readers more emotional and almost feel what the characters felt.
Stuart said...
ReplyDelete“Cullen tells a well-known tragedy, which some may see as defeating the purpose. On the contrary. Cullen pays attention to minute details and includes first-hand accounts to convey to the reader the importance of each moment leading up to the killings. The fact that Cullen has pieced together the events in chronological order is amazing in that he makes the reader connect to the characters, up until they unleash on their schoolmates. On the whole, Cullen's attention to detail and inclusion of important background information that ties into the killings provides an important element to a compelling storyline."
- It is remarkable how Dave Cullen recalls a well-known tragedy by turning it into a compelling story. Like Stuart said, he does this by describing the event in great detail. He also shows the incident from the viewpoint of others, such as teachers, parents, and students. His firm interest in the Columbine episode is apparent by the vast knowledge he expresses in the book. This wide range of knowledge makes for a more compelling story.
Jason R.,
ReplyDeleteI thought a lot about your comments in regard to Sue Klebold, and your points made me feel more sympathetic to her. You basically make the point that there are many terrible parents who don't raise children who become killers. I should clarify again here, because I don't think she raised the "monster" her son became (and Cullen doesn't portray her in this manner either), but I do think she missed a lot of warning signs (which you'll read about later). Again, it's easy to judge "monday morning quarterback" style, and I certainly don't think Sue Klebold encouraged her 17 year old's actions, but because she was distant and unaware, she made it easy for him to do what he did.